roko20650 v Sainsbury Credit Card

[roko20650]

Help please,

 

My husband is self employed and has been laid off his sub-contract work and there is nothing out there, we are homeowners with a mortgage and are unable to pay our credit card debt to Sainsburys, thinking of debt management but would like first to try going it alone, any help would be appreciated.

 

Ta muchly

[elliesnan]

bump

[roko20650]

I sent the CCA request on 7th February and have not heard anything from them. Do I need to do anything more??

[cerberusalert]

Send them this one now;

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Do not sign print name

[roko20650]

Many thanks I will send this to them by Recorded Delivery tomorrow just to ensure I can prove delivery.

[roko20650]

Having sent them a letter requesting a copy of the CCA on 7th February by Recorded Delivery, I did not receive anything until this arrived dated the 25th February, by which time I have already sent them the "in dispute letter". What do I have to do now? Anything?

 

Roko20650

[cerberusalert]

This doesn't look like a 'true copy' of an agreement that you signed. Is this as you've received it or is your signature on it?

[roko20650]

This is exactly what they sent me with my printed details removed. No signature anywhere.

[cerberusalert]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

[roko20650]

Sent this by recorded delivery yesterday, so now I will just wait and see what happens.

Roko20650

[roko20650]

I have had a couple of phone calls requesting payment and yesterday received a letter from them referring back to my letter of the 26th February, not my latest letter dated 6th March. I will attach this once I have removed my personal details, but from my recollection this is the application form I signed in the store at the time I was accosted whilst shopping and asked if I wanted a credit card. You can see on the bottom of it that the person who signed me up was in the store! Does it matter that the first things they sent me were out of time and also incorrect?

[roko20650]

This is the letter I received from them dated 13th March, they have acknowledge and referred to my original letter of the 26th Feb!! I didn't write to them on the 26th Feb they replied to me on the 25th Feb my letter of the 7th February, no mention of my letter of the 6th March saying they have not sent the right documents and that the account is now in dispute as at the 21st February!! What is your opinion, this was something I signed in store, which is evidenced by the notation of the store assistant who accosted me whilst shopping!

Roko20650

[charlie*]

We have two Sainsbury's cards and when we asked for copies of both agreements with our signatures on them, they sent them to us.

 

They messed us about at first, just sending typed details but, we tried a bit more formality and got copies of the actual forms with our signatures... funnily enough, they are as different as chalk and cheese.

 

There is no reference on either to prescribed terms, except on one,

 

"Credit Limit (Condition 1.1) Initial credit being £2000.00"

 

then separately, in tiny print barely readable it does say ...

 

"agreeing to be bound by the Conditions of Use (as set out overleaf and as amended from time to time)"

 

No mention on the front or terms on the back, NONE.

 

No mention of interest rate or payment periods etc on the front signature page.

 

Just written back about one because we cannot decipher ALL of the small print even with a powerful glass.

 

charlie*

[roko20650]

I received this sometime ago and thought I had posted it for advice. Anyway can someone take a look as I am getting lots of mail and would like your opinion as to whether this is enforceable or not.

ltr 12Mar09 copy agrmt.pdf

[cerberusalert]

If page two is the reverse of page one it would be enforceable.

 

Can you measure page 2 & compare it to page one to see if it's the same size?

[roko20650]

I think it could be the reverse as it appears to be the same size, and also they sent it to me double sided not as individual sheets.

[cerberusalert]

On the face of things it looks enforceable, but it is not unknown for creditors to manufacture documents to make them seem genuine. Without seeing the original it is difficult to be 100% certain whether it's genuine or not, that's why it is important in situations like this to make the creditor/DCA produce the original if it ever went to court.

 

Hopefully another reader may have a similar document and be able to shed some light as to whether it is genuine.

[roko20650]

Trying to find my around the site, but how will I find other people with Sainsbury cards with similar problems. Roko

[cerberusalert]

paste 'Sainsbury Credit Card' in the search fuction at the top of this page (under Cag announcements)

[charlie*]

I have studied the application form and the following page, the terms of use etc....

 

I don't know whether it's meaningful or not, but, it does say... 'This is a copy of your agreement to keep..... '.

 

'to keep' being the operative words...

 

Now, does that not suggest that it was a separate piece of paper - not on the back of the signature page, otherwise would it not have been incorrect?

 

How say you to that, Cerabus??

 

charlie*

[cerberusalert]

Well spotted.

 

It can't be the reverse side making the application an agreement if it's the copy you keep.

[charlie*]

Preeee..cisely