repossesion attempt.

[johnny11]

Please please somebody help me. I'm at my wits end trying to sort out my mortgage.

I will try to be brief and give all the relevant information but please understand I am a mixture of angry/ scared and totally confused

I took out a mortgage approx 7 years ago on a fixed rate for five years. During this period the mortgage company changed I was informed of this. After the five years I received no letters or contact of any kind informing me that my fixed rate was up and was going onto a flexible rate, or what the interest rate was. Thought no problem (it was a busy period for me as my Mother was ill). I upped my payments on my own accord and intended to contact them to sort things out. Unfortunately early 2006 I had a heart attack. Obviously I was unable to work for 4 Months (unpaid as I had literally just started with the company). Then went back to work on a 3 or 4 month structured return (I.e. not full time). My wife contacted the mortgage company and advised them of the state of my health and asked if we could miss a couple of payments as we were obviously struggling. They immediately wrote back telling me to phone them (I never saw there letter but accept they may have sent one and assume one of my family got rid of the letter to avoid causing me stress). Then in October last year received a letter from a solicitor advising me that a mortgage company I had never heard of were taking me to court to repossess my home as I owe them £4000 When I phoned the mortgage company they asked me some security questions and told me I had got some wrong? I hadn't so was wondering at this point if it was mistaken identity or some sort of phone [problem]. I had a lengthy discussion with the phone operator and I asked her why they hadn't contacted me regarding the arrears/interest rate changes. And if they had could she tell me when they had and I would take it up with the Royal Mail. She told me they hadn't contacted me. She also told me they hadn't sent an agent to save me £60. I asked to speak to the Manager. To cut a long story short after speaking to two Managers both of whom admitted they hadn't contacted me. One of them even said it was my responsibility to work out interest rates and add any charges e.t.c. In my contract it states quite clearly they they will notify me BEFORE any changes are made. They also said they would cancel the court action and associated charges and put my account on hold for 3 months. In a moment of anger/disbelief I told them they could do what they want as this is what they do anyway. I Searched the internet and found out my mortgage company had changed to this new one (By the way its not small it is a global company).At this point I contacted the FSA and they gave me the Community Legal Service phone number and told me to make a formal complaint. When I phoned the mortgage company they said I couldn't complain to the Litigation department and had to contact Customer Services. They told me contact the Litigation Department and complain to them. This went on two or three times finally they wrote to me and told me they had recorded my complaint (how when I never actually got to make one don't know). All of this had an effect on my health. My doctor even wrote to them to express his concerns and signed me off work. I obviously couldn't afford time off work as this would make things worse so had to ignore his advice. I made an appointment with a solicitor at the Community Legal Service. She told me that they were wrong. She said she would represent me in court and then write to them to take my complaint further. She phoned me the day before I was in court and told me she wouldn't be there and to see whoever was on duty. At court I told the CAB representative there the story and explained that I had had enough and was just going to give them the keys. She advised me not to that and to sell the house myself as I would get more money. She also said I should take it further but she couldn't help me as somebody else was already looking at my case. She advised me to offer £50 a month. I said I could afford £75 and offered that instead. The mortgage company refused my offer and went for repossession. The judge said £75 was enough and would take me just over 4 years to repay my arrears. I waited no contact from any solicitor. Now Today the mortgage company have phoned me to say I am £4000 in arrears and they are charging me £40 a month. I phoned the Mortgage company Manager he now denies saying it was my responsibility to work out my payments. This should be easy to rectify as they record all there phone conversations so he will check. Also by his calculations even though I have paid this months installment plus the extra £75 I am now £20 further in arrears? I have contacted another Solicitor he tells me that even though they have broken the contract it is more that 21 days after the court case so there is nothing I can do. Please someone tell me this is wrong. I really don't know what to do next. If you are still reading thanks for sticking with me. Any advice even if it is directions to the nearest cliff would be appreciated.

[clemma]

Just bumping this so you will get the advise you need.

[johnny11]

THANKS much appreciated

[Goldlady]

OK. Don't despair. This can be sorted out.

 

When did the court case take place? And am I right in thinking that the judge made a suspended possession order on the basis that you paid the arrears at the agreed amount?

 

Don't worry about the £40 charges. I successfully reclaimed mine from GE Money after they tried to repossess our house and we refinanced elsewhere.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, please don't panic - you will get all the help and support you need on this forum.

 

Firstly, have you been making the payments as agreed with the judge at the court hearing? If so, you are in no danger of losing your home.

 

Unfortunately most lenders will charge a fee of £40 or £50 per month while you are in arrears, but this should be added to the outstanding mortgage, not the arrears.

 

Who is your mortgage company? Is your mortgage interest only or repayment?

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[johnny11]

Thanks Goldlady appreciate your help. Court case was Dec 3rd 2008. Yes the judge did make a suspension order on the agreed amount.

While I am concerned about the £40 charges what hit me most (and like a brick really) was that I wouldn't pay the arrears in four years as the judge confirmed, but by my reckoning will be closer to 9 years.

Thanks again was really beginning to despair

[johnny11]

Thanks Ell-enn. Yes I have made the repayments at the agreed amount but obviously only one. My Wife and I have already decided to sell the house and by something outright (This will probably be a caravan due to what we can afford) as neither of us can sleep worrying about what will happen next.

I don't want to name the company as if they read this they could piece together who I am. Would be happy to tell you confidentially though if I can work out how? The mortgage is repayment.

A sincere thankyou to all feel so much better knowing someone cares is bothered and takes the time to help.

[Ell-enn]

No problem Johnny, just post on here any time you're worried or something is stressing you about the situation - we'll always try to help.

 

Take your time over selling the house, if you are making the payments on time each month you can wait till you get the right price and find somewhere you will be comfortable living.

 

As I said, as long as you keep up the payments nothing else will happen, so please, please try to relax - the stress of losing your home against your will is over.

 

Stay positive

[johnny11]

Ell-enn thanks for your reply I really do appreciate your advice

[jansus]

Hi just to say hello and I am sure you will get lots of help and support here to help you through this difficult time.

 

Jan

[Justhadenough]

Just a hello from me,

 

And the main thing is look after your health,Dont let them take that away from you!

 

Good Luck

[jansus]

I agree with the advice you have been given - although it is strressful it is much better to keep control over the sale of the house yourself as then you can also control the costs. There is a "sticky"thread at the top of the forum about the new protocol the mortgage companies are supposed to adhere to so as long as you keep to the agreement at the moment you should be ok.

 

Another thing keep any contact with the mortgage company in writing - avoid phone calls . We can help you with any letters.

 

Concentrate on making your paymants and then along the way maybe you will get some help with the charges ( personally I think it is disgusting that they make these charges when people are in trouble)

 

Is there equity in your property do you think?

[johnny11]

Thanks for the reply Jansus.

I don't think I made clear whats upsetting me most about the whole affair. My contract states that I will be informed of any changes in the interest rate before they are implemented.

If they don't inform me, but charge me anyway then of course I will have arrears because I don't know what to pay? It seems to me they can charge what they want when they want and there's nothing I can do about it? Also obviously the contract isn't worth the paper its written on so I'm better off giving up and living in something I can buy outright and depend on no one. Sorry if I'm not clear but as I have said I am rather upset, annoyed, frustrated, frightened and definitely confused.

Thanks again, all messages are greatly appreciated.

[johnny11]

Sorry to go on. But as there adding £40 charges its only a matter of time before I'm back in court. That's whats keeping me awake waiting for the inevitable summons. Surely it's only a matter of time before they repossess.

[Ell-enn]

Hi, the £40 charges are added to the outstanding balance of the mortgage, they are not added to the arrears - so, what you pay towards the arrears is reducing them.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Ell-enn

[jansus]

I can see what you are saying about the interest rate changes - but proving that they havent told you in a letter will be difficult ( but I do believe you as the way some of these MC are acting is beyond belief.)

 

You could send an SAR which should reveal all contact with you and ask for a copy of thier complaints proceedure.

 

Then we could help you draft a letter about your complaints and then if you dont get a satisfactory reply you can go to the FOS or FSA( if that is what is stated in the compalints proceedure). You may not get any financial recompense but you will have the satisfaction of knowing a complaint is on the records about the company.

 

If you feel uncomfortable complaining now while the arrears are being paid then at least you can prepare your documents now ready.

 

 

Reference the charges I can see how they will not affect your arrears however they will still be on your total debt to be repaid when you sell the property and IMO it is still kicking someone when they are down and I hope Goldlady is correct and you can reclaim them at a later date.

 

If you do want to make a formal complaint justlet us know and we will see what we can do to help.

 

You can always call the FOS to make an initial enquiry to see if they have come across this situation before - sometimes you get a helpful person!

They may suggest that you do proceed.

[johnny11]

Thanks Jansus

Just to keep you up to date. Been busy Today and this is where I currently am. Contacted FOS they say not a lot they can do as its already been to court. And the court is a higher authority than them. Reading my original post I haven't put a time line but received solicitors letter 6 weeks before court date. The mortgage company didn't register a complaint ( despite numerous attempts) until two weeks later. FOS guidelines say they won't get involved until 8 weeks after complaint. Unless my maths is dreadfully wrong thats 4 weeks after the court date and therfore 4 weeks after the FOS can do anything so another dead end there.

Been contacted by the mortgage company as well Today. They say they are passing my file from the Litigation Department To the Resolution Department? Don't quite understands why but after dealing with arrogant misinformed Teenagers will be glad of the change.

I know probably the smart thing to do is to shut up and let them get on with it. But just been doing some sums. Now owe mortgage company at least £1000 more than when I started. Add another £2000 in charges for the next 4 years I'm in arrears. And finally write off all the payments I've made for the past seven years (about £34000). I can't do that would rather go out screaming than just lie down and die.

P.S. I really appreciate everybodys help and support. But please if you can see what I've done wrong please tell me.

I am a reasonably educated law abiding, tax paying, and fair adult. If I am being unreasonable or naive please tell me. I will take all comments on board.

Thanks again all for listening to me.

[Goldlady]

You have done nothing wrong. There are many of us who are or have been in the same boat. In fact you have done something very right by seeking help on CAG. And once you have got out of this hole (which you will) you will have learned a great deal and gained a lot of strength.

 

I wonder if you can ask the court to get them to stop adding the charges, now that the matter is subject to a court order. Not sure, but it's a thought.....

 

Wonder whether you would benefit from reclaiming the charges to date rather than waiting...

[jansus]

I see that the FSA said that you do have a valid complaint and I dont really understand the FOS argument ,as the court case is them saying you are in arrears. You are not denying that - but what you are complaining about is the reason for the arrears and why you are in this position.

 

As Goldlady has had success in reclaiming charges maybe she is right and you should try and get these reclaimed now - after all what do you have to lose.

 

Would you consider maybe adding to your official complaint about them not notifying you of the payments and now the resulting monthly charges?

 

Do you have a copy of your original letter? maybe Goldlady will help you to update it and then carry on with the process and then go to the FOS anyway or back to the FSA - you may get a more helpful person.

[johnny11]

Thanks For that Jansus. I have copy's of everything sent or received since this started in October. You have hit the nature of my complaint on the head. I am posting 8 of the 10 specific questions I asked in my first letter. I am not posting the other 2 as this will identify the company concerned. I don't know why but I feel its important not to identify them and thus forewarn them of my plans. Or I am I being paranoid. Here are the questions I have asked to be answered.

1) Why has there been no communication regarding any changes to my account. And any arrears?

2) Is it acceptable to not communicate with me and to go straight to court for repossession of my home even though I have increased the payments?

3) Is it really my duty to work out my repayments and penalties?

4) What is your complaints procedure and how does it work?

5) Is there a full breakdown of my account including all the information I requested being sent to me?

6) Is there a direct debit on my account? And if there is has it been cancelled by whom and when?

7) As I am now unable to work due to the anxiety which this problem has caused, and can pay no bills and have no means of income for living expenses what am I expected to do?

8) How much have I been charged for phone calls including calls I have had to make despite promises that you would call me?

Question 6 refers to the security questions they got wrong and is probably not important. Question 7 refers to my doctor signing me of work. I obviously sent this letter before deciding that I had better not have time off work as any loss of income would hit hard.

Will retry FOS on Monday

Thanks again

[fool on the hill]

Hi Goldlady

How did you get back the £40 charges on GE ? I have approx £4000 from my old mortgage company and have the records back over last 12 years.

Also Ell-enn with them added to the mortgage, interest is charged ?

Johnny11-know how you feel.These admin charges are a [problem] like bank charges.

[blueboy987]

Sorry to go on. But as there adding £40 charges its only a matter of time before I'm back in court. That's whats keeping me awake waiting for the inevitable summons. Surely it's only a matter of time before they repossess.

 

I know how you're feeling, I've been struggling to keep up with my mortgage for a few years now and have had a number of re-possession hearings and suspended re-possessions. It scares the crap out of you at first, but once you get things under control and understand the process it gets a lot better.

 

The judge has said how much you have to pay every month and as long as you keep to that there is absolutely nothing the mortgage company can do. So just keep paying it and they won't be able to re-possess your house, its as simple as that.

 

I've never heard of a monthly charge whilst you are in arrears, though others seem to say it is common. My mortgage company doesn't do it, though I have been hit with plenty of charges for legal fees and late payment charges etc. All of these charges go on to the balance of the mortgage and are irrelevant as regards your monthly payments and arrears.

 

Except, when they re-calculate your monthly payments when there is an interest rate change on the mortgage they do this on the outstanding balance (ie including all the charges they've added). So you'll end up paying a little bit extra every month when this happens.

 

I'd have thought your main course of action at present is to continue to challenge them for their failure to notify you of changes in your monthly payments. Keep chasing them until they send you copies of the letters they claim they sent informing you of the changes, or until they admit they didn't.

 

This should allow you to build up a case to support your claim that the arrears are not your fault. I'm pretty certain you can apply to the court to revise the repayment order, its possible this would give you the evidence to do this. I'd also be looking for some form of compensation for their failure to comply with the terms and conditions of the mortgage - they work both ways, they have to keep to their end of the bargain as well.

 

I'd also be checking on all the charges they've added to your mortgage. They should be stated on your annual mortgage statement, but either way keep chasing them until you get a breakdown of them. When you've got that, post the details here and I'm sure someone can advise you if they are legitimate and if not, how you can reclaim them.

 

Most of all, don't let them get you down. They can and often do threaten you with nasty stuff and demand full payment of arrears, but there are laws and as long as you keep up with the repayments there isn't much they can do.

[Goldlady]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/114750-ge-money-secured-loans-3.html

 

Just to cheer you up about claiming back those 40 quids Johnny:D

[fool on the hill]

hi goldlady .just read it . cheers me up no end .will return to the site in a couple of weeks to do more research . thanks

[supersleuth]

Hi Johnny,

 

The essence of your complaint is that the lender has applied charges and interest to your account without first telling you that they are applying the charges and extra interest. Consequently, because you didn't know that the interest rates had gone up, you did not know that (from the lenders perspective) that arrears were building up. Worse - you didn't even know that your mortgage lender had changed.

 

Consequently, your complaint is that the lender has caused the whole of your problem - your lender has caused the alleged arrears. The lender, having caused the arrears itself is now claiming that it can repossess. In short, you are not in breach of contract and did not have any arrears because, you were not told about the additional charges and you were not told about the change of lenders.

 

If this is a correct assessment of your complaint - here's a suggestion as to how to defend the action.

 

Firstly, the lender cannot claim alleged arrears because the lender is in breach of the contract. You cannot claim a remedy of the court (namely a possession order), when the lender is firstly, the CAUSE of the alleged default and secondly, when the lender is in breach of contract itself.

 

The lender's breach of contract.

The contract provides that the lender may vary the interest rate ONLY ON THE CONDITION that the lender gives prior notice of the increased rate. The new rate is NOT effective until this condition has been satisfied.

 

The lender did not satisfy this condition. Therefore, the alleged increase in the interest rate is not contractually payable and therefore are not payable by you.

 

The lender CAUSE the alleged arrears to accrue in its failure to tell you they had increased its rates AND its breach of contract in its failure to comply with the contractual condition that it gives you notice of the rate increase.

 

Therefore, any element of the alleged arreas that represent the increased rate are not arrears and in compliance with the terms of the contract, such amounts must be credited back.

 

With respect to the failure to inform you of the change of lenders:

 

The mortgage contract provides that the lender may "assign or transfer" the mortgage to another lender. This is true and your old lender has done that. However, both the old lender and the new lender MUST inform you of the assignment. The new lender cannot claim contractual rights until the fulfil the statutory conditions on which the contractual right to assign is based, namely the Land REgistration Act 1925 section 33. That act requires that you are GIVEN NOTICE of the assignment.

 

Thus your mortgage lender is in material breach of contract on both counts.

 

Hence, re-calculate your account according to the interest rates that you were informed about in accordance with the terms of the contract. If the entirety of the arrears charges represent the extra interest charged (in respect of the rate increases that you were not told about), then you can argue that that interest is not applicable to your account and that the judge should order that they refund that element of the interest charged. Hence, your alleged arrears should be reduced by that amount.

 

Then tackle the fact that the montly extra charges should not have been made and ask that the court order that those charges should also be credited back.

 

Then also work out how much time you've spent on fighting this case (writing letters, time spent in court etc.) and ask for a costs order of £9.25 x by the number of hours spent. On this point you could ask for payment within 14 days or ask that the amount of YOUR costs be credited to the account.

 

Hope some of this helps. If you take back control and fight these people you will feel a whole lot stronger. It seems that the legal profession have let you down very badly. On that point, the solicitor who failed to turn up at your hearing should be SUED!!! She is in breach of her professional responsibilities. If she could not turn up, she had a duty to send a replacement (from her firm). The CAB lady gave you good advice and she is right - you HAD legal representation and the failure of the solicitor is inexcusable!!! The solicitor should have asked for an adjournment and the hearing should never have gone ahead - my guess is that your solicitor did not do that becuase she would have had a wasted costs order granted against HER. She sold you down the river - get rid of her - complain to the Law Society/SRA for compensation from HER and then get on with fighting those sleazy lenders.

 

Good luck