Red Debt Collection problems - Vodafone

[computerguy99]

Hi,

 

A couple of months ago, I received a letter from Red Debt collection agency stating that I owed Vodafone £88. I have used Vodafone in the past but this was literally about 3 years ago.

 

I have since received a letter a month, with the general threats about sending it onto their 'legal' department and issuing a CCJ against me.

 

I am pretty sure I owe nothing and they do not state any details about what payments I am meant to have missed to end up owing this money.

 

I have so far not replied to them.

 

Any advice as to what I should do next? I don't believe I owe them any money and this just seems like harrasment.

 

Thanks.

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, computerguy.

 

I'll move this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[ashmk]

Send them a prove it letter.

 

Edit to suit

 

Dear Cretins

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[jobmid]

I have since received a letter a month, with the general threats about sending it onto their 'legal' department and issuing a CCJ against me.

Thanks.

 

court? this is lowell red debt we are talking about here!!! they will never send it to court would cost them more than the £88 pounds they claim you owe. send them the letter as ashmk said to do remember to send it recorded delivery and dont sign your name just print it.

 

the only court they will send it to is the imagenery one in thier heads:p send the letter let us know how you get on

[computerguy99]

Thank you very much for your help! I will post the letter tomorrow and let you know how I get on. ;-)

[maroondevo52]

Mind and leave out the Dear Cretins bit

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[computerguy99]

Good evening

 

As I am about to send the above letter to Lowell/Red tomorrow I was wondering if someone could tell me what reply I am likely to get from them.

 

Thank you very much for your help!

[mr.ton]

It could be a number of things...could just be another threatogram, or it could be to offer you a discount of anything up to 80% (a bribe) or it could just be to say they are closing their files.

One way or the other you will win as they have no legal powers whatsoever

[computerguy99]

Thank you Mr.Ton

 

It could be interesting then as in their letter they threaten to pass it to their Legal Department and they then decide what to do...

 

"It may involve commencing legal action against me and applying to the cout for a Judgement that may register against me." (...)

 

"If the court then grants enforcement of the judgement we may look to either

1. Instruct a bailiff to remove goods (...)

 

2. apply for an attachment of earning oder directly from your employer to deduct payments from your earnings

 

3. Obtain a charging oder against your property

 

4. Obtain payments directly from your bank account via third party debt order

 

5. request your attendance at court for examination of your financial means. "

 

 

All this for £88???

[hillards]

Look at the words used - IF, MAY, anything but WILL - it's a standard template they send out to everyone, it should be marked as a collectors edition, number 14 of 210 in the series, like they used to do with tea/cigarette cards. They send one after another out, in the hope you'll agree with them that you should pay, just because they say so...

 

As always, empty threats from the Leeds Losers. Passing things on to their Legal Department means the guy on the next desk who's printer is loaded with paper headed Hamptons Legal.

 

A couple of choice letters to them usually means they'll eventually give up.

 

It's the 'prove it' letter first, see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/174962-intro-much-appreciated-help.html#post1888908, and when they fail to respond to that you can tell them to stop processing your data and never bother you again. It also stops them passing it on to one of their buddies to start all over again.

[computerguy99]

Thank you Hillards

 

I sent the "prove it" letter today and will see what comes back considering that they are going to pass this "matter" to their "legal department " tomorrow...

[jobmid]

posted by loyalbrummie taken from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/132947-debt-collection-lowell-portfoli.html#post1400090

these companies are all linked and by linked i mean that nobby sits at 1 table as lowells , behind him sits nobby who is lowell portfolio behind him sits nobby who is red debt and behind him you guessed it sits nobby who is hamptons , all of them couldnt string a sentance together , they are the dullest lowest form of pondlife you will ever come across .

have a good read of that treat it will let you know who you are deailing with and exactly how useless Red Debt/Lowell are. Bearing in mind thier legal person is just a computer which sends out automated treat-o-grammes you will porberly get a letter from hamptons legal when one of the monkeys get around to changing the paper in the printer to do the hamptons print run. let us know how yo get on

[computerguy99]

Evening all

 

I was just wondering when the clownells write again and today we received a letter from Hamptons Legal. The Clownells/Red must have ignored our letter which we sent asking them to prove that we owe the money.

 

The letter we received today is: (sent on 12.01.09)

 

Re:Our client Lowell Portfolio Limited

Vodafone account etc... Outstanding amount.. £88.00

 

Your account has been passed to this office for attention.

 

An agent has unfortunately been unable to make contact.

 

Our client Lowell has therefore instructed us to asses your account for litigation purposes. We now intend to issue county court proceedings against you with a view of recovering the outstanding balance owed by you.

Any Judgement that may subsequently be made against you by the Court may see your outstanding balance increase significantly with court costs and interest.

 

Unless an acceptable repayment plan or agreed settlement is in place within 7 days of this letter legal proceedings may commence.

 

Should legal proceedings be commenced there will be an additional claim made against you for payment of interest on the overdue amount in accordance with Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 together with legal costs.

 

Furthermore should any judgement be subsequently granted against you by the Court this may be registered against you at the Register of County Court Judgements. This would then remain as a public record for a period of up to 6 years and as a consequence may affect your future ability to obtain credit.

 

Finally should any judgement remain unpaid we could apply to Court for enforcement action to be taken against you to obtain payment, which may entail future applications to:

 

i. Instruct a bailiff who could then remove goods from your premises should any judgement not be paid.

ii. Payments may be deducted from your salary by your employers.

 

We would urge you not to ignore this correcpondence and contact us .... with a view of resolving this issue as a matter of urgency.

 

Can someone please let me know what the next step is as we did not receive any proof that we owe the money.

 

Thank you very much!

[ODC]

Another meaningless load of drivel from the Leeds losers. They forget the simple fact that they have to prve you actually owe them the money and that they have a legal right to claim it. This they have singularly failed to do. You have asked them for proof they have failed to supply it. Time to make a formal complaint.

[computerguy99]

Hi there

 

Could someone please help me and let me know which letter I should send to complain about Lowells as they threaten with Court and have not sent a single proof to show that we owe the money.

 

Should I also send something else? Like a CCA request?

 

Cheers

[ODC]

A CCA is no use to a Mobile Phone account. Even the Leeds Losers know this.

 

That said the still have to provide proof of the debt. You should demand this such as your contract with Vodafone

[computerguy99]

hi

 

would it be worth sending this letter to Hamptons Legal as well? (Already sent to Red on 4th Jan)

 

Is there anything else I should/could send them?

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

 

Dear Cretins

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[ODC]

Hamptons, Lowell and Red Debt are all the same. No need to waste a stamp.

[computerguy99]

good evening

 

Thank you for all your help and support! You guys are great!

 

After receiving a "charming" letter from Hamptons Legal yesterday we received another one from Red today which says...

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

 

We are currently looking into your enquiry and will respond to you as soon as possible. Please be assured we will try to answer and resolve your query at our earliest convenience.

 

Unfortunately I am unable to give you an exact date as to when this will be as our enquiries can take time, as we often have to retrieve information from the original client or external bodies.

 

What I can guarantee is that your enquiry is being dealt with and you will have no need to write in again.

 

If you want to speak to someone in out customer service team then please do not hesitate to call

 

Your sincerely

 

Alison Shepheard

Customer services

 

 

 

Can someone please tell me the next step? Should we still write back to Hamptons or do you think Red would have passed this information on?

 

Thanks a lot!

[computerguy99]

Hi

 

Can someone please have a look at our latest letter from Red and let me know what (if) we have to do now?

 

Cheers

[hillards]

Sadly, you are now waiting for them to find a suitable bit of paper that they think will suffice as an agreement for the service they claim you had. This may or may not enforce the alleged debt, a contract for service would not confirm the balance outstanding, but a combination of documents may.

 

Unlike a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request, where you can give them 12+2 days in which to respond, after which they have to stop any action, you've not given them any set timescale in which you would reasonably expect to hear from them. If it takes 6 months then they may consider this to be reasonable.

 

They have said there is no need to write in again, which could be taken to prevent you imposing a reasonable time limit upon them, after the original request.

 

It may be that you will never hear from them again, the matter could re-surface with a different DCA, they may send some paperwork out - until you hear from them I wouldn't worry too much. All the threats they issued are meaningless unless they take a case through court, and it's rare they consider that!

Edited January 16, 2009 by hillards
(corrected tpyo)

[computerguy99]

Thank you very much Hillards.

 

So we just wait and see then? Or would it be wise to send another letter to them to give them a timeframe in which they should come up with the agreement, contract, ect? I would like this matter to be closed and I hate waiting!

 

We had a look today and it is more like 4 years since we were with Vodafone.

 

Thanks

[hillards]

They've actually realised there was no timeframe specified and said not to write again. If you did follow up they could simply ignore any instruction now. However, if you feel it's taking too long, you could write and ask what they are playing at after a 'reasonable' amount of time. Only fair, in case they had written and the letter was lost in the post etc.

 

Consider that they would only give you 14 days in which to respond and perhaps allow them the same courtesy?

[computerguy99]

Good evening

 

I would need your help please.

 

After sending the proof it letter we got another letter from Lowell last week which says:

 

We write in respect of the above debt, which, as previously notified in writing we have purchased from Vodafone. We would advise that the nil balance shown on the statement relates to when Vodafone removed this account from their system in preparation for the sale to us. This does not mean that there has been any payment received against the account or that your liability for payment has been removed.

We are now entitled to receive payment of the balance £88 from you and enclose a copy of your statement as requestd. Neither Vodafone nor ourselves are aware of any reason for non payment.

Please kindly make payment of the outstanding debt or contact us within 7 days of the date of this letter to agree to acceptable payment proposals, failing which we reserve the right to instruct our solicitors to issue legal proceedings against you without further notice.

 

Yours sincerely..

 

attached to it is a bad copy of what they have sent us for proof of the debt. Unfortunately I cannot scan it but I hope if I write whats on it you might be able to help.

 

Vodafone Ltd Customer account....

PO Box 549 Date 12/01/09

Banbury ..

 

 

My parterns old address

 

 

 

 

Statement of Account

 

 

statement for account xxxxxx

Open invoices

 

 

Summary

 

Debt Ageing (days)

 

Current 01-30 31-60 61-90 - 91-120 121-150 over 150 Total

£88 £88

 

Unallocated Credits

Current 01-30 31-60 61-90 - 91-120 121-150 over 150 Total

 

Total £88

 

on the back of it it says.

 

Creation date Activity ReferenceNumber Debit amout Outstanding

Balance

 

March 2006 Previous inv xxxxxxxx £1.17 £1.17

 

Feb 2006 Previous inv xxxxxxxx £46.83 £46.83

 

Jan 2006 Previous inv xxxxxxxx £20.00 £20.00

 

Dec 2005 Previous inv xxxxxxxx £20.00 £20.00

 

 

Statement Total Amount £88.00

 

 

As my partner is worried about this he rang them up tonight to offer £50.00 as there might be a slight change that he owes something but probably not as much as they say.. we could understand the last invoice but not 4 as he has a direct debit and there should not have been any reason for him not to pay them.

Needless to say that the £50.00 was not accepted as they said that they had to pay money to get the "proof" from Vodafone.

We didn't pay it in the end but I was wondering if anyone could advise on how to handle this?

 

Thank you very much for your help!

Edited February 5, 2009 by computerguy99
Typing mistake

[hillards]

I'm wondering what the 'statement of account' is supposed to prove? It's certainly not a contract, or has any form of signature on it.

 

They are chasing £88, that's shown in the 'Debt Ageing' section, but the "Statement Total Amount" on the reverse is only £78.71? That does not add up somehow.

 

Based on that document I would not have offered a peanut to Lowell, let along £50. They've shot themselves in the foot as it's more that they will have paid for the account in the first place and there's nothing there to back up a claim in court.

 

To get to the bottom of it you would probably need to send a SAR to Vodafone, which would give you a complete list of transactions and charges made on the account. That will cost you £10 plus recorded delivery, £1.08 first class at the moment. If nothing else, it's peace of mind, knowing what the bills were about. If you can then prove that there was anything added that should not have been you can claim things like 'late payment charges' back from Vodafone, and add in the £10 SAR fee to boot.

 

I would hope that some others following this thread will advise further, but I can't see that Lowell would proceed to court for this amount, without further 'evidence' of the contract.