Mortgage Securitisation - Preferred

[SadButTrue]

?

 

Even more confused

 

I was reading earlier that the SPV registers a charge at companies house

[SadButTrue]

Does the spv have a charge on the mortgage ? Just like my mortgage company has on my house,

 

So a charge on a charge ?

[enoughisenough]

No. The trustee has the entry at companies house under s. 395 of Companies House Act (1985) The SPV doesn't own it any more. The whole purpose of the SPV is to flog the securitised assets (our houses) to Investors. It's all arms length or 'ringfenced' as a previous poster said.

 

This is inevitably simplified. I do not tend to post very long and detailed arguments - out of necessity rather than coyness or reluctance to share info - . I'm too busy fighting off these feckers as we speak.

[SadButTrue]

I will get my head around this

 

I thought s.395 was the registration of a charge at companies house by the SPV

[SadButTrue]

Ok Is It Me says the SPV has the charge at companies House and Enoughisenough says it isn't the spv it the trustee.

 

Which one of you two is correct ?

[enoughisenough]

In my understanding it is the trustee. However I stand to be corrected!

 

Keep the faith you caggers. Sterling work going on left right and centre!

[SadButTrue]

Who is the trustee then EIE ?

 

It it a person or another company ?

[SadButTrue]

I will go back to reading.

 

I am dazed and confused

[enoughisenough]

The trustee is whomever the originator and the SPV set up to be the trustee. The key to your quest is protracted but rather simple. Start with the originator.

 

Who gave you your mortgage and when? Simple qs I am not trying to ascertain you details. Then we can go onto step two of the snakes and ladders board.

[enoughisenough]

the words 'you details' was obviously a typo. I am not thick or summfink! It should of course have read your details

 

Cheers EIE. Keep the faith.

[SadButTrue]

NatWest 2004

[SadButTrue]

So it is not the SPV that owns my mortgage but the trustee

[enoughisenough]

Bugger!

 

You need more specialist advice from a natwest thread. I suggest you try there.

 

However I have strong grounds for believing (as distinct from knowing!) that the underlying processes of all of THESE TYPES of securitsation structures were more or less the same. After that it gets far more detailed and interesting.

 

You will need to find out the SPV because without that the trail will go cold. That should be real easy to find. But as the issue gets more fraught you will find that stuff is being pulled from the web left right and centre. If I were you I'd be getting very busy quick.

 

I have too many of my own fish to fry to do this on your behalf but you can post again and I will try to help where I an. You may have a lot of this stuff already - I just don't know. Where are you in this game of snakes and (property) ladders?

 

Cheers.

[SadButTrue]

2 months behind and counting

 

So it is not the SPV but the trustee that should really take me to court, god forbid things go that far

[SadButTrue]

So my mortgage goes from Natwest, to the SPV and then to the trustee ?

[enoughisenough]

No the SPV actually should be the one. But the law is complex here, as is the process. THe SPV sells on the underlying collateral in the form of notes and is also sometimes referred to as the issuer. The Trustee is a spin of from the SPV. If you really want to know what happened to your mortgage there are several steps.

 

1. Go to the Land rgsistry office near you. They are very nice and helpful. But it will cost. Ask for the title and the deeds. This will in all likelihood be Nasty west.

 

2. Make sure you get all relevant pages of the documents. I have heard of so called schoolboy errors in this regard.

 

3. You then need to get down to companies house. It's very difficult to get this stuff of them unless you visit in person. You are looking form filed under s.395 of the Companies House Act 1985. They should assist you in finding who the trustee who holds the charge is.

 

4. None of this is definitive. It just helps you build up a picture. There are other aspects of the jigsaw that need consideration and acting upon too. However small steps make you progress along a very long path.

 

Hope that helps. I'm blocked off now with other stuff to do. Good Luck.

 

PS Things will go that far very quickly unless you get your a**e into gear. If you are not in the vicinity of London, it makes this stuff more difficult, but not impossible, to get hold of. You also need to find a copy of Nasty west's securitisation structure for around 2004. This will be on the web somewhere or someone on the NW forum may have it. There will be those on there who have more specialist knowledge than myself regarding NW. I strongly urge you go there!

[SadButTrue]

But if the Trustee owns my mortgage, how can the SPV take me to court.

 

I am really sorry, I just want to get the basics straight in my head before I go too deep

 

Thank you for the info. I am still dazed and very confused

[enoughisenough]

PS CAN A MOD MOVE THSI HIJACK TO A MORE SUITABLE LOCATION. TA.

 

Goodnight peeps.

[SadButTrue]

PS CAN A MOD MOVE THSI HIJACK TO A MORE SUITABLE LOCATION. TA.

 

Goodnight peeps.

 

I am sorry, I did not mean to hijack this thread. I thought this thread was for discussion about securitisation.

 

Sorry for all the questions about securitisation

[enoughisenough]

No worries

 

but I really think it is in your best interests to get specialist NW advice. As i have pointed out the process is more or less the same but there will be other NW peeps who have more experience of this issue as it relates to NW. I'm trying to pop you in the right place. Hijack was too strong and I apologise unreservedly for that!

 

No need to apologise for qs about securitisation. Check out Mark Thomas's podcasts on the itunes store they are free to download and shed a load of light on this stuff.

 

Good luck and feel free to pop up anytime on this thread.

 

Keep the faith.

[SadButTrue]

Thank you for all your help Enoughisenough

 

I have been thinking about this all night.

 

In relation to securitisation (in general)

 

Who owns the mortgage ? Is it the SPV or the trustee ?

Who owns the charge ? Is it the SPV or the trustee. ?

 

The reason I am so confused is that when I think about my house and mortgage, I own the house and the bank own the mortgage.

 

So does the SPV own the mortgage and the trustee owns the charge ?

 

I thought a charge, like the one on my house was to secure lending. Why does either the SPV or Trustee get a charge if they are buying a mortgage ?

 

The whole process is confusing.

 

It is ok for people like you Enoughisenough but I don't understand what actually happens, not just with my mortgage but with securitisation as a rule of thumb.

 

Could someone, please take a few moments to help me and I am guessing many others to understand what is going on.

 

What is the process ? i.e. Does the bank sell the mortgage to the SPV, who then sells it to the trustee

 

Who owns what.

 

Many Thanks in advance people

Edited April 23, 2009 by SadButTrue

[enoughisenough]

trying to help but I'm on my commute now. Will post soon.!

[supersleuth]

Hi Sadbuttrue,

 

The nature of the transactional relationship between the originator (of your mortgage), the SPV and the trustee is this:

 

1. The originator loans you the money and you give the originator a mortgage on your property.

 

2. The originators sells your mortgage to the SPV. Now the SPV is your mortgagee and your lender.

 

3. The SPV grants a Trustee a - mortgage on your mortgage - think about that phrase. Your mortgage IS mortgaged. People generally only think about granting mortgage on a property BUT you can grant a mortgage on the contractual value of the actual mortgage contract. When the SPV borrowers money from the investors, the investors say - yes we will lend you money but how do we know we'll get paid - so the SPV says, hey investors, I own all these mortgage contracts that are worth X amount and I'll put these mortgage contract in trust with a Trustee who will hold these mortgage contracts for your benefit. The SPV puts the mortgages in trust with the Trustee and grants the Trustee a Legal Charge on the mortgage contracts (which IS the mortgage of the mortgage contracts, filed with Companies House as a form 395 filing).

 

The form 395 filing is where the mortgage contracts have been "charged with the payment of money" - which is money to be paid by the Trustee to the investors.

 

Thus, the upshot is:

 

1. The SPV owns the legal title to your mortgage

2. The SPV has created a SUB-CHARGE on your mortgage. The Trustee has the Sub-Charge - (This sub charge is the form 395 which IS the "mortgage on your mortgage".

3. The Trustee owns the sub-charge (i.e. form 395 filing, the mortgage on your mortgage).

 

The smoke and mirrors bit - is that all of this has happened in secret without telling you about it plus, the originator remains registered at the LR, so you don't what's going on behind the scenes.

 

Mull over the concept of granting a mortgage on a mortgage contract. Once you get comfortable with the fact that you can grant a mortgage/charge on a CONTRACT it will become easier to grasp.

[SadButTrue]

Thank you Superslueth

 

I was reading the Carmel thread last night and I thought someone had said that they had checked on the SPV and it was the SPV that had completed or signed the s.395

[enoughisenough]

Thanks for bailing me out super I was in the process of writing a very long stepwise account of the whole process and the issues and debates that arise. Trying to give a sad but true a bit of a boost here - but you've cracked it for him/her.

 

Sad but true you might want to look at this. Quite useful as an intro.

 

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/79/04708698/0470869879.pdf