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    • Hi, the vehicle went to Audi Chingford on Thursday 13th May. I did state beforehand that I only wanted a diagnostic. The technician out of courtesy opened the drain letting huge deposits of water escape the seals. Video evidence was provided via AUDI cam. The link for the audi cam has been forwarded to BMW and Motonovo. I spoke to branch manager explained the situation and he stated he would sent me an email outlining the issue. Audi state this is not really an issue and more of a design flaw. However, the seals still have water ingress. I purchased the vehicle with £0 deposit on a 60 months HP plan for £520.00. The vehicle total was £21000. I did not go for any extended warranty. I live almost 70 miles away from the aftersales centre in Peterborough. I have previously uploaded the document I forwarded to BMW however it was in word format. I have had to buy a new tyre almost three days after purchasing vehicle. BMW still have not compensated me for the v62 cost as they said they would. 
    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???


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Phoenix

 

"a) there are no implied terms in the contract that allow for you to charge contractual interest"

 

There is and it applies throughout English law. It's the principle of equity - fair treatment. Mutuality and reciprocity flows from it.

 

there's also the bank's fiduciary responsibility, whether or not it agrees with it is irrelevant: it has, at Law, a fiduciary responsibility to its customers - and that included not making profit unless the customer specifically agrees to it. In order to get informed agreement, the banks have to make clear what their actual costs are - and they don't, so we can't give informed consent.

 

The fact that the T&Cs are standard and have no room for negotiation also has a bearing but I can't remember what it is, at the moment. If I do in the near future, I'll come back.

 

The final point is that, if the bank levies unlawful charges on you AND charges interest on them, then you're entitled to all of it back. The banks may argue over how much but the principle is sound.

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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"a) there are no implied terms in the contract that allow for you to charge contractual interest" There is and it applies throughout English law. It's the principle of equity - fair treatment. Mutuality and reciprocity flows from it.
It is very important not to misinterpret what terms are fair, what terms are implied, and what terms are actually agreed to. For example, you will have agreed that should your finances be dire, and the bank needs to make a recovery, then they are entitled to report such details to CRAs. There is no implied reciprocity allowing you to do the same. However, it could be argued that we have the right, implied, to report the bank to the OFT and FSA, but they cannot do likewise...

 

The implied terms are that they will operate your account lawfully, and I agree that we are arguing that the term is being abused by the bank. However, and as I said earlier, the fact that the bank breaches contract law does not, by implication, allow for us to do the same.

The fact that the T&Cs are standard and have no room for negotiation also has a bearing but I can't remember what it is, at the moment. If I do in the near future, I'll come back.
I can tell you exactly what it is - you have an ABSOLUTE right to amend the terms yourself, although it is a moot point whether or not the bank would accept the amendment. If you want a copy of my notes then PM me...

 

My argument, successful though unproven in court, is that mutuality allowed me to amend a term of the contract, bilaterally by invitation to be party to the amendment, and that by their conduct the bank accepted the amendment in principle.

The final point is that, if the bank levies unlawful charges on you AND charges interest on them, then you're entitled to all of it back.
Completely and utterly in agreement on this - the penalties and the interest should never have been taken.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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The law overrides everything - T&Cs can't put themselves above it. English LAw, of which Equity is probably the most important principle, is above the T&Cs. The UTCCA simply codifies the concept.

 

But I'm DELIGHTED we agree on something!!:D

 

W

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Guest Battleaxe

I can tell you exactly what it is - you have an ABSOLUTE right to amend the terms yourself, although it is a moot point whether or not the bank would accept the amendment.

 

I did amend the T & C's when I opend my new bank account, initialled the amendments, got a countersignature, sent the lot back and the the account was opened.

 

I struck what I did not agree with, initielled and witnessed these strilke outs also.

 

I have the bank bending over backwards to help me. T & C's are not lawful and you don't have to agree with them. I tried it, the account is open and has been operating without a problem for four months.

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Wow!

Who did that?

W

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Hi Guys-

sorry to interupt your debate.

 

I just wanted to say...

that I won against EGG plc

 

I claimed back my charges, plus

the compounded interest on those charges (vampiress's Google spreadsheet for credit card compounded) plus the statutory S69 8% interest.

 

Love AC

 

Congratulations, AC !!! Well done.

 

Did you REALLY get contractual interest PLUS statutory interest on top ??

 

Do tell !!!

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That's great, AC - that's what I'm claiming against NatWest.

 

Looks like you had a bit of a horrorshow, though> well done for seeing it through - and feel proud of yourself: you won! Having actually gone to a court hearing!

 

Best wishes

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Hi Guys-

sorry to interupt your debate.

 

I just wanted to say...

that I won against EGG plc

 

I claimed back my charges, plus

the compounded interest on those charges (vampiress's Google spreadsheet for credit card compounded) plus the statutory S69 8% interest.

 

Love AC

 

CONGRATULATIONS

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Hi all,

I am relatively new to all of this. I am confused (a little) with regard to what to claim. I do, however, want to claim the contractural rate of interest.

I am making a claim against Barclays, however, I closed the account on 1st September 2004.

Do I claim the contractural rate up to todays date or do I only calculate it until the account was closed?

Cheers for the advice in advance..

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Do I claim the contractural rate up to todays date or do I only calculate it until the account was closed?

 

I would believe it is up until the date of settlement as the argument is that the bank has borrowed this money from you and havent repaid it therefore the intrest is accuring on it until they settle as it is your money they have borrowed irrelevant of the fact the account is closed

 

 

Please note these are my views and opinions only and i am not a Legal Egale just another user of this site

So if i am wrong please tell me i am

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Hi all,

I am relatively new to all of this. I am confused (a little) with regard to what to claim. I do, however, want to claim the contractural rate of interest.

I am making a claim against Barclays, however, I closed the account on 1st September 2004.

Do I claim the contractural rate up to todays date or do I only calculate it until the account was closed?

Cheers for the advice in advance..

Yes, Ozmrr, Newbody is correct, you claim right up until the date of settlement of the claim. You will probably need to read up on contractual interest, so that you can show that you not only know what you're claiming, but why.

 

I hope some of these links might help you in your quest:-

Spready guide:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-50088.html

Vampiress’s Google Chambers:

https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=wise&passive=true&nui=1&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fspreadsheets.google.com%2Fccc%3Fnew

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Thanks for the info.

With regard to contractual rates of interest I have seen a range of numbers bandied about and have read about the issues related to the changes in interest rates over the years.

Is it fair and reasonable to take the bank in questions monthly unauthorised ovedraft rate (2.05% per month or 24.8% p.a) and use that in the calculation or does that give me too much benefit and should I use another rate - say the authorised overdraft rate?

It is a confusing area.

Ozmrr

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Hi, Ozmrr

 

(how do you pronounce that?)

 

Read through this entire thread (if you have enough life left:rolleyes:) and you'll see the various arguments thrashed out.

 

I - and many others - have come to the conclusion that claiming the unauthorised rate is fair under 'mutuality and reciprocity'. You can always offer something lower as alternatives, if it makes you feel better and more virtuous. But personally, I'd go after the b*gg*rs for all you can.

 

The arguments have been thrashed out but, in short, they charge you a high rate for unauthorised borrowing, so it's quite reasonable for you to charge them for unlawful removal of funds from your account. The bulk of the compensation is merely paying you back your own money anyway.

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Ozmrr, it's not really as complex at it looks. The only rate you use for contractual interest is their current annual rate - either unauthorised or authorised. Nothing else to work out - the spreadsheet does the rest for you. You just do the boring stuff - entering in the charges and dates !!

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Hey. Bill - That was your 2000th post!

 

Congrats!

 

W

 

And now - I'm off to do some paying work.

W

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Hi folks,

 

Just for anyone reading this thread who may be in doubt about claiming CCI....I have just had my 1st win with Morgan Stanley after LBA stage and thet have agreed to cough up CCI! Deadline was up today before i filed for court tomorrow and I had letter today!!!

 

It has now made me determined to plod on with the rest with CCI! :lol:

Morgan Stanley

**Won 31.01.07 with CCI**

Capital One

**Won 19.04.07 with CCI**

Halifax current & Joint

Verbal S.A.R 11.01.07, stats recd 18.01.07

Halifax Visa prelim sent 26.01.07. Reply 31.01.07 Filed N1 on 20.03.07 - Judgement granted, sent in the bailiffs

GE Capital

Frazercard Prelim sent with CCI 27.01.07

Burtons Prelim sent with CCI 22.01.07

 

RBOS Visa S.A.R sent 12.01.07

Partners JJB card (Creation) *Won* with part interest - 15.02.07

 

 

Partners LLOYDS Account S.A.R 13.12.06 - stats recd 30.01.07. Prelim sent with CCI 01.02.07

 

Partners BOS Mastercard Offered all charges except £12. Refused. N1 filed 20.03.07 - Judgement granted, sent in the bailiffs

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It certainly does and I wouldnt have had any of it if it wasnt for everyone on here! I will definitely be donating when I have sorted it all.

 

Im oozing with confidence for credit/store cards now but still keep putting off my claim against Halifax bank! lol. I will get there though!

 

I think they are all starting to recognise the CCI now as I have also had letter today from Creation (partners JJB card) offering difference between their charge and £12 but agreeing to pay the interest! Of course my letter will end in ....off! :lol: :lol:

 

It was worth the hours of reading the whole 50 odd pages of this thread! lol

Morgan Stanley

**Won 31.01.07 with CCI**

Capital One

**Won 19.04.07 with CCI**

Halifax current & Joint

Verbal S.A.R 11.01.07, stats recd 18.01.07

Halifax Visa prelim sent 26.01.07. Reply 31.01.07 Filed N1 on 20.03.07 - Judgement granted, sent in the bailiffs

GE Capital

Frazercard Prelim sent with CCI 27.01.07

Burtons Prelim sent with CCI 22.01.07

 

RBOS Visa S.A.R sent 12.01.07

Partners JJB card (Creation) *Won* with part interest - 15.02.07

 

 

Partners LLOYDS Account S.A.R 13.12.06 - stats recd 30.01.07. Prelim sent with CCI 01.02.07

 

Partners BOS Mastercard Offered all charges except £12. Refused. N1 filed 20.03.07 - Judgement granted, sent in the bailiffs

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Guest Battleaxe

Way to go Redsonja. Now crack on with the rest. They are realising we are understanding the enormity of their concealment.

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Great stuff, RedSonja.

 

 

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

 

Delighted for you.

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did amend the T & C's when I opend my new bank account, initialled the amendments, got a countersignature, sent the lot back and the the account was opened.

 

I struck what I did not agree with, initielled and witnessed these strilke outs also.

 

I have the bank bending over backwards to help me. T & C's are not lawful and you don't have to agree with them. I tried it, the account is open and has been operating without a problem for four months.

That is incredible - but I suppose the downside is that if there is ever a dispute over Ts&Cs they can argue that the terms are bilateral, and that they were not forced on you.

 

As a matter of interest - whilst they clearly accepted your amendments, did they actually comment on the non-conformist approach you took to open the account? I would be keen to understand their thinking behind accepting the partial loss of control here...

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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