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Good morning.

 

Im hoping that someone can give me some advice with our welcome loan.

 

We initially took out a secured loan with welcome for 12000 in 2004 and then looked to consolidate our debt in 2006 so we spoke to welcome finance. We were pretty niave at the time with debt. I was looking through our agreement with them last night which was signed by us in july 2006 as i was trying to work out the settlement rates. I was horrified to see that there is no figure stating what the total to repay is and it adds up to £43000. The loan is for 17000 but there is a figure of £180 for some insurance that we know nothing about but are paying interest on. The interest on this loan is £26000, making the total amount payable around £43000.

 

Do i need to get this agreement checked as it is pre 2007?

My second question is, when were looking for more finance at the time, surely we should have just been given the extra 5000 that we were looking for instead of them making us refinace the whole loan to pay themselves off and give us the difference, surely that cant be right?

If anyone can give me any advice i would be very grateful.

 

steve

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This might help you...

 

CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Prescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

  • Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  • The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  • There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  • And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

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good grief, they saw you comming

another satisfied welcome customer

been there, done that , got the tshirt

 

forget the 2004 loan, its the 2006 loan we need to concentrate on

 

i know a lot of the early welcome loan are nothing more than toilet paper,

they got cretins to fill them out.

 

i dont want to give you any false hope but you need to send welcome a cca request

by law they have to respond in 14 days

 

no agreement, game over

 

if they send an agreement there are plenty of people on the forum who can check it out, like i said, cretins filled them out

 

if there is no agreement or it does not conform to the consumer credit act, you are in the driving seat.

 

they negotiate on your terms not there terms

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thanks for the prompt replies...... thats a lot to take in.

 

One thing i also failed to mention was that the acceptance fee has been added to the interest charge and we are also paying interest on that as well. I feel such a fool. Can you explain what this letter is that i need to send and what i should be asking for.

thankyou

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Subbing

 

 

Welcome welcome welcome!!!!! nothing good about these people!!!! I will be happy to join the fight!

 

Will load up my case shortly. Seems like these guys took/taking alot of people a ride, including me!

 

Goodluck with the fight Chaz2 you will get loads of help here.

 

 

postggj sounds personal :D - whats the saying, dont get personal, get even!

I need to change my avatar..But cant find a good replacement.

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i do have a copy of the agreement and there is a section stating the interest charge and the acceptance fee, there is then a box with these two figures added together as the total charge for credit. What has made me laugh is that on the back it stetes that the interest is charged on the acceptance fee for future finance counceling.

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there we go

 

its a bit confused in places as cag had gremlins, but you will get the idea

 

and you are correct

with me it is personel and when you start your thread i will be more than happy to help

 

go get them

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/114371-welcome-finance.html

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i chaz

 

ime not being pig headed with this but it took a lot of advice for me to discover that

it was only through cag that i gained that knowledge

the cca is a bugger to understand at the best of times

 

it appears you are pretty well clued up on the cca

 

like i said not being personel, just need to be sure

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as this is an open forum and my comments benefit all

 

chaz

 

to answer your question

 

if acceptance fee has been added to the total ammount of credit, so you are paying interest on it, being that the acceptance fee is not the credit

 

GAME OVER

 

CANT ENFORCE THE AGREEMENT

 

House of Lords - Wilson and others v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Appellant)

 

I HAVE USED THAT ARGUMENT IN COURT MYSELF

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stephie

 

yes that is correct

but i believe this practice is illegal

paying off one loan with another by the same company

 

you can consolidate with another company , but not the same one

 

this has been going on to long and they have been getting away with it

 

i am waiting on confirmation of my statement by the relevent authorities so will update when i have news

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this is great advice and i humbley thank you all. Im not trying to get out of paying my debts but am trying to put myself in the driving seat as with work being quiet i have tried to get a bit of help from welcome and they dont give a crap. If what im hoping that this loan is unenforceable then great, i can be in the driving seat. would i be right to get the contract examined legally and go from there or apply for a copy of the contract first, im not too good at this sort of stuff, even though i sell cars and am regulated by the fsa, but i do my job properley.

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chaz that explains it

 

its just that from time to time welcome come onto these thread spouting there venom

they are easy to spot and you being a new poster set the alarm bell ringing knowing about the cca

 

you can post your agreement on your thread minus personel details for confirmation

 

google photobucket, its free

 

just leave the figures in place

 

what is your position ref this loan

are you in arrears

default

getting hastle

what is your future forcast on making payments

 

just for your info

 

that judgement was done in the house of lords, so it cant be overturned

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i dont have a scanner so ill have to get some help with that. we are not in arrears but did default on one payment last year but paid it back almost straight away. The hastle that we got was incredible. it. It was just that i am having a problem with a company called park finance after they re-posessed my vehicle when i lost my job a few years ago. I came across this fantastic site and a couple of the threads prompted me to check my loan contracts with welcome as we have tried to get the payments reduced for a period while work is quite and i was gobsmacked to see that we are paying back 43000 on a 17000 loan, an insurance product for 180 that we just dont know what it is and the fact that we are paying interest on both these things. I just hope the loan is unenforceable and we are in the driving seat. Im not trying to avoid paying my loan, just want some help from them and this would surely help.

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hi postggj, what was judgement in house of lords that can not be overturned???

 

this may help friend , you have answered on another thread,,,,

as the loan was to pay off another with same company...massive interest!!

Only direct action by the masses will work....

 

Look at all successes they have never come from negotiation!!!

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hi fergal71, i think it is me that you are refering too. Im sure that i read on another thread that it is ilegal for welcome to clear there own debt first, as your right in what you say we will have paid off a lot of interest aswell. Im grateful for any advice that will help me to put welcome in there place.

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Thread now needs moving from here.This forum is really only for intro help.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thread now needs moving from here.This forum is really only for intro help.

Is the thread being removed or moved? I want to post my case up shortly. Is this the incorrect section?

Stewie

I need to change my avatar..But cant find a good replacement.

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I think you are confused Post, my reply was in a quote form. I was asking where this thread is moving to as per Martin3030's comment.

Originally Posted by MARTIN3030 viewpost.gif

Thread now needs moving from here.This forum is really only for intro help.

 

I subbed to this thread as I want to keep upto date with it. Why would I want vechile finance?

 

Where is this thread moving to? Will I be able to check the posts?

 

Stewie;)

I need to change my avatar..But cant find a good replacement.

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hi again

sorry i mis-read my documents and it seems that the acceptance fee is seperate but after reading some of the threads i have some points about my contract that dont seem quite right and i would be grateful for any help. Firstly, the welcome docs consist of three sheets, an advanced copy, a copy for signing and the origional, the information is then transfered through the origional by carbonated paper through to the other two sheets so the info should be the same. When the blue sheet is sent, it is sent a week before the signing copy is sent so that you can make in informed decision on the loan. On this copy the halves and thirds figures are not written in and the tick indicating the lifecare insurance is not there so as far as i can see we did not have all the info about the loan. When the origional came with the signing copy the halves and thirds figures had been filled in and a tick mark in the box for "lifecare 24" and an "X" marked where we should sign for this. we were told to just sign next to the "x" marks and return it for payout. I have also noticed that the box for the APR (variable) is filled in with 24.40% but then there is a box that has been left blank and next to it are the words "Rate of interest per annum (variableby giving you 14 days notice in accordance with clause 1(b)overfleaf), i would have thougt this should be filled in with a rate of interest. Do any of these issues make my contract pottentially flawed. Just as a last note, we did not ask for the "lifecare 24" so surely this must be a mis-sell.

 

thanks

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