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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Cheshirelad Repossessed


CheshireLad
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Hi again

 

Not sure about the statute barred bit - on a mortgage I thought you could go back 12 years? After all they can chase you for 12 years for a shortfall?

 

I agree about changing the terms of acceptance if you think you have a good case to carry on.

 

was the50% offer 1/2 the charges or 1/2 the charges` plus interest accruing?

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

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offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Hi again

 

Not sure about the statute barred bit - on a mortgage I thought you could go back 12 years? After all they can chase you for 12 years for a shortfall?

 

I agree about changing the terms of acceptance if you think you have a good case to carry on.

 

was the50% offer 1/2 the charges or 1/2 the charges` plus interest accruing?

 

Hi Jansus

 

They say its statue barred by the limitation act 1980, but I believe they must be agreeing their charges are penalties charges to invoke this Act and as such these charges are unfair as per the OFT statment re: charges.

 

They are offering a refubf of the charges that are within the 6yrs plus interest and my MCOL fee.

 

Cheshirelad

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from a company charging to help reclaim

" Unlike bank charges, it is possible to claim back

mortgage penalties going as far back as 12 years. (as opposed to 6years on bank charges). Even if you no longer have a mortgage or have changed lenders they can still be"

claimed back. Consumers have had a rough ride for years and had enough punishment inflicted on them. So why are you waiting? It is your money and it is definitely worth

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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if it is a mortgage and not a secured loan then:

 

 

 

If it Your mortgage lender may begin chasing you for a mortgage shortfall, which was the result of repossession. The time limit is slightly different for the mortgage lenders as they have 12 years before the debt becomes Statue Barred. The Limitation Act 1980 | Debt Advice | Payplan

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by s20

(1)No action shall be brought to recover—

(a)any principal sum of money secured by a mortgage or other charge on property (whether real or personal); or

(b)proceeds of the sale of land;

after the expiration of twelve years from the date on which the right to receive the money accrued.

 

 

Limitation Act 1980 (c. 58)

 

"

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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if it is a mortgage and not a secured loan then:

 

 

 

If it Your mortgage lender may begin chasing you for a mortgage shortfall, which was the result of repossession. The time limit is slightly different for the mortgage lenders as they have 12 years before the debt becomes Statue Barred. The Limitation Act 1980 | Debt Advice | Payplan

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by s20

(1)No action shall be brought to recover—

(a)any principal sum of money secured by a mortgage or other charge on property (whether real or personal); or

(b)proceeds of the sale of land;

after the expiration of twelve years from the date on which the right to receive the money accrued.

 

 

Limitation Act 1980 (c. 58)

 

"

 

thanks Jansus

 

I'm submitting my AQ to court tommorrow and continuing

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Have you done any research on whether any other cases have gone to court?

 

I agree that by offering you 50% they do seem to be admitting liability but I am not a legal expert and would not like to see you fall at the last hurdle.

 

When I claimed my bank charges and was negotiating the day before court I actually re-ran my spread sheet with the charges less £12.00 ( as that is what had been recommended on credit cards.) In other words I was aware I would have been charged for going over my limit but it was the amount that was excessive. If they had offered me that amount to be honest I would have been happy. As it happens they did offer the full amount but that may be worth keeping in mind.

 

I will be watching with interest as this is an area I would really like to see moving forward and other people being able to feel confident about claiming.

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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By the way reference the ERC - I think I said before that when i contacted the FSA and FOS they both said that if a claimant sent details then they would look at individual cases - but could not answer a general question.

 

I would complain about this and if the original key facts summary did not make it clear about the ERC in cases of possesion then yes complain.

 

Also there is something else I read the other day I will post in a minute.

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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from CML

 

Sale of Properties in Possession

18. When selling properties which have been taken into possession lenders are under a duty to obtain the best price reasonably obtainable. A lender is not bound to postpone the sale in the hope of obtaining a better price at some future date; however, the lender should allow sufficient time to permit, for example, proper advertising so that the best price obtainable may be achieved. Mortgage lenders generally use the following administrative procedures for selling properties which have been taken into possession.

Administration

 

 

 

 

Question how long did they advertise the property for?

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Guidance notes

 

see guidance notes oct 08

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Have you done any research on whether any other cases have gone to court?

 

I agree that by offering you 50% they do seem to be admitting liability but I am not a legal expert and would not like to see you fall at the last hurdle.

 

When I claimed my bank charges and was negotiating the day before court I actually re-ran my spread sheet with the charges less £12.00 ( as that is what had been recommended on credit cards.) In other words I was aware I would have been charged for going over my limit but it was the amount that was excessive. If they had offered me that amount to be honest I would have been happy. As it happens they did offer the full amount but that may be worth keeping in mind.

 

I will be watching with interest as this is an area I would really like to see moving forward and other people being able to feel confident about claiming.

 

Hi Jansus

 

thanks for this, not found many other cases of people persueing mortgage co's with any consistent success. It does'nt seem as straight forward as bank charges.

 

Cheshirelad

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Jansus

 

I checked with the court today and they say I alright for a few days to get my AQ in.

So gives me a little more timeto get my thoughts together

 

Attached is a copy of the letter from their solicitors send I would welcome your opinion

 

cheshirelad

Defence.jpg

Defence-2.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I have another case going now 'Cheshirelad v Mortgages Plc' possibly should have its own thread?

 

Done all the prelimary stuff SAR, request letter for unfair charges and penalties with interest circa £2500, LBA

 

All the usual replies so I MCOL and they submitted a defence earlier this week a copy of which the court has sent me today

 

Their defence handwritten on one of their compliment slip's says ' Account number can't be traced for this customer. regards'

 

I clearly stated my account number on the claim and have double checked it and its the same as the one quote on all letters and SAR

 

I was g**smacked, I would appreciate comments and opinions from anyone. My questions are

 

1. Is this a real defence?

 

2. The court has accepted this as a defence, should they?

 

3. Its not signed and there's no name on it

 

4. What should my next course of action be, the court are asking me for an AQ

 

regards

Cheshirelad

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  • 1 month later...

Update:

 

The court would not give me a summary judgement but made an order giving them till 31st July to submit a proper defence.

 

I received a letter from their solicitors with a copy of a defence they were going to submit. Which basically said my claim was poorly pleaded and they we're embarassed to have to defend it. They said they had no real details of my claim and would be seeking to have the claim struck out.

 

Well the court never received this and no defence has been file, so yesterday I got my judgement by default for £2500 (not sure if this is correct? as an order had already been made by the judge which they failed to comply with)

 

I have issued a warrant of execution, so baliffs are going in A.S.A.P NO MERCY they never showed me any!

 

Wish I was a fly on the walltinysmile_fatgrin_t.png

 

Of course they could go for set aside just have to wait and see

 

Cheshirelad

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  • 2 months later...

hiya am subbing so i can help a friend, any updates please

 

cheers angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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hiya am subbing so i can help a friend, any updates please

 

cheers angel x

 

Well they applied to SA and the hearing was on 6th Nov,

 

it didn't go very well:( despite having prepared a good witness statement

 

They sent a £700 an hour barsister along, well tooled up with all his legal books. the Judge said he could have a turn then me then the judge would sum up

 

I thought it was going ok, till the judge interjected regarding the faxed defence that didn't reach the court and sumerised that maybe it did. Then it seemed to turn and I almost got the feeling the disicion to set aside had been made.

 

When he turned to me and said now I have read your WS, is there anything you would like to add. And although I went though it, it didn't appear to matter.

 

He basically said the defendant was obviously submitting a defence, they had applied to set aside in good time and their defence had a real prospect of success

 

Then the real shock was when he awarded costs against me on the basis it was my fault I had put the defendant to the expense of having to set aside the judgement and only after pleading I was not at any fault with court process, and not in a position to pay he discided not to award them, phew!

 

I'm waiting for the actual judgement and new hearing date now.

 

I have to say, I'm not sure about continueing with my claim now, basised on what the judge said about the prospect that their defence would succeed and the pospect that costs would be award if I don't win

 

Cheshirelad

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