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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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Help with TDS Claim


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Hi all,

 

This is a bit long winded, so please bear with me. I shall try to give you all the information I can so that you can offer me the best advice.

 

I moved to a new area for a new job on the 16th of August with my family. We rented a lovely apartment in Newcastle for £850. On the day of moving in we paid £850 for rent in advance, £850 deposit, and £499.38 agency fees. This property was taken on a 6 month contract.

 

Within a few weeks problems had already begun with one of our neighbours being a complete busybody and interfering constantly in our business to the point where we felt uncomfortable living in the property and decided we had to move. I informed the landlord that we would be moving out and asked if he would consider relieving us of the rent payments, but he refused (quite rightly, I would have done the same). I agreed to continue paying rent on this property and continued with our plans to move out.

 

We found a great new house a few miles away and proceeded to rent that on top of the flat we are still paying for (I have no real issues with affording both, although I don't really want to, obviously).

 

My girlfriend has recently found out that the landlord has neither put our money in a scheme, or had any plans to, and so we have decided to make him an offer. I have already paid rent on the property up until the 16th of November, and he has our months deposit. This means that 4 of the 6 months are covered so we offered not to pursue him through the courts for 3 x the deposit, if he agreed to write us a letter absolving us of responsibility for the rent.

 

He has now turned around and tried to say that the £850 given to him (the deposit) was in fact a months rent in advance despite the fact we paid £1700 in rent and deposit the day we moved in, and he will not be accepting our offer.

 

As of now, I have cancelled my standing order for payment of rent, and will attempt to pursue the landlord through the courts to try and recover the deposit + 3x the amount.

 

Can anyone give me some advice on exactly what I do from here, or if I even have a chance of this working out?

 

Thank you all in advance,

 

James.

 

 

Edited to add - When I spoke to the landlord to inform him we were moving out, he agreed to put the property up for let and sale again, and once someone was ready to take over the property, we would be clear of our tenancy agreement. The condition of this, was that I would pay the £500 "finders fee" to the Estate Agent, which at the time I agreed to as it was obviously cheaper than continuing to pay rent on a property we no longer lived in. The property has been on the market for 8 weeks now and has not had a single viewing. The two property descriptions on right move are vastly different, the sale side has a wealth of information, and the rental side only provides very basic information, which if I were looking to let the flat, I would not find sufficient and would immediately move on to the next property.

Edited by Gaskie
Minor addition.
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I would imagine that the landlord will now sue you for the outstanding rent (now that the standing order has been cancelled). If you still have access to the flat (not sure if you do - you should if your still paying rent), he will also likley bring eviciton proceedings against you when you are two months in arrears. He is likley to add the cost of evicting you to rent arrears claim. You will of course have an opotunity to counter claim at this point, but I dont think any jusge is going to look favourably upon you.

 

If you have a read of the cases discussed on here, yo will see that the common theme seems to be that if the landlord protectes the deposit before the TDS claim comes to court, then the x3 compensation wont be awarded.

 

You have tried to link the issue with the depsoit as a reason for not paying the rent, this wont wash with the court imho.

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I would imagine that the landlord will now sue you for the outstanding rent (now that the standing order has been cancelled). If you still have access to the flat (not sure if you do - you should if your still paying rent), he will also likley bring eviciton proceedings against you when you are two months in arrears. He is likley to add the cost of evicting you to rent arrears claim. You will of course have an opotunity to counter claim at this point, but I dont think any jusge is going to look favourably upon you.

 

If you have a read of the cases discussed on here, yo will see that the common theme seems to be that if the landlord protectes the deposit before the TDS claim comes to court, then the x3 compensation wont be awarded.

 

You have tried to link the issue with the depsoit as a reason for not paying the rent, this wont wash with the court imho.

 

 

 

I am more than happy to continue paying rent if I need to, as I said I've already paid up until the 16th of November so the fact that I have cancelled the SO is largely irrelevant until the 16th of Nov when the next payment is due. I am happy to restart it if needed. I read somewhere that the landlord is unable to counter sue us for rent owed, and is also not allowed to evict us or re-let the property while court proceedings are ongoing, is this incorrect?

 

Regardless of the fact I don't want to continue paying rent, the fact remains that he does not have our deposit in a scheme and even though we told him this 3 days ago he has made no moves towards putting it in one.

 

 

Edited to say - I actually haven't done a thing wrong yet. I have paid all my rent, my deposits, my fees, my bills, everything is in order and I am fully compliant. In order for me to get 2 months in arrears, it would take over 3 months.

Edited by Gaskie
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I am more than happy to continue paying rent if I need to, as I said I've already paid up until the 16th of November so the fact that I have cancelled the SO is largely irrelevant until the 16th of Nov when the next payment is due. I am happy to restart it if needed. I read somewhere that the landlord is unable to counter sue us for rent owed, and is also not allowed to evict us or re-let the property while court proceedings are ongoing, is this incorrect? No. The landlord will have the right to evict you for none payment of rent. I would reinstate the S/O to avoid this.

 

Regardless of the fact I don't want to continue paying rent, the fact remains that he does not have our deposit in a scheme and even though we told him this 3 days ago he has made no moves towards putting it in one. Then you must sue for none compliance. As previously stated, if he then subsequently protects it before the case comes to court, you are likley to loose.

 

 

Edited to say - I actually haven't done a thing wrong yet. I have paid all my rent, my deposits, my fees, my bills, everything is in order and I am fully compliant. In order for me to get 2 months in arrears, it would take over 3 months. For you to be 2 months in arears would actually only take 1 missed rent payment + 1 day.

 

Good luck. There are plenty of good threads and suggested wording for TDS claims on here.

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Thank you, Planner.

 

I have read differing opinions on whether the claim for 3x deposit will be successful if the landlord puts the money in a scheme before it gets to court. Mr Pipps made some extremely good points in the TDS sticky, but do we have evidence that tennants are losing cases like this?

 

Yet another edit - Can anyone advise exactly how I start proceedings against the landlord? I have no idea how to start at all. Do I need to send him a letter before starting legal proceedings? Should I seek legal advice before doing anything else?

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To correct a misunderstanding, the landlord may not issue a valid Section 21 notice to end a tenancy while the deposit is protected, but can use Section 8 to evict for non-payment/contract breach etc.

 

 

That's fine, he can evict me all he likes since we aren't living in the property anymore and it is lying empty.

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To correct a misunderstanding, the landlord may not issue a valid Section 21 notice to end a tenancy while the deposit is protected, but can use Section 8 to evict for non-payment/contract breach etc.

 

I have to ask Steve M for clarification of his point above that I have highlighted.

 

I have the feeling Steve actually means quite the opposite of this.

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Hi all,

 

I have been thinking about this situation all day today, and I have come up with something that I believe is a win win situation for me.

 

The problem I have is that as soon as the landlord seeks legal advice, most likely on Monday, they will tell him to immediately put the deposit in to a scheme. If this happens, there is a high chance I won't get anything from my claim.

 

My idea, is to speak to the landlord this weekend and offer to pay him the remaining 2 months rent owed (I've already paid 3, and he has one months deposit which he can obviously keep, the flat is in better condition than I took it, something he would agree with) on the condition that if the flat is let before my tenancy would be over, he will repay me the balance owed. This would then effectively end my tenancy agreement. Once the tenancy is over, he can no longer put the deposit in to a scheme and I will be free to start legal proceedings without the fear that the deposit will get put in to a scheme, therefore almost guaranteeing that I will be able to recover the deposit x 3.

 

I do think the landlord would agree to my request, after all it's essentially what we have already agreed just that this way he gets his rent in full, guaranteed.

 

Please let me know what you think of this, and whether you think this would work.

 

Thanks

 

James.

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"he will repay me the balance owed"

 

I haven't laughed so much in ages. :)

 

I like your style James, but I'm unsure.

 

You go for it though and let us know how you get on.

 

 

It may sound cheeky, but that is exactly the agreement we (verbally) already have in place, but it involves me still making monthly rent payments which I'm assuming he is not confident of receiving. This way, he gets all his money up front and only has to repay me IF (and it's a big if with Christmas so close, and the flat not getting a single viewing in 8 weeks) it gets re-let.

 

Let's assume for one minute that he does accept, does the rest of my idea make sense, and would it have a good chance of working?

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Firstly I doubt he'll EVER repay anything even if he lets it tomorrow, and that's just my opinion.

 

I'd give it a whirl, what have you got to lose?

 

 

Ok then, let's assume he won't repay anything, and has no intention to. If I settle the balance of the tenancy, and get a signed letter saying as much, will I then be able to make a claim safe in the assumption that he can no longer put a deposit in to a scheme?

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Once the tenancy is over, he can no longer put the deposit in to a scheme and I will be free to start legal proceedings without the fear that the deposit will get put in to a scheme, therefore almost guaranteeing that I will be able to recover the deposit x 3.

You should be able to but there was a story of a judge striking a claim because a Tenancy had ended. Can't for the life of me understand why this happened but it did so you have to be careful.

It happened because the legislation refers to a "tenant" being entitled to start an action for non-protection of deposits. Once a tenancy is ended, then a tenant is de-facto no longer a tenant, therefore loses the entitlement to start an action.

Edited by Esio Trot

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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Hi, I am no longer a tenant and I am in the process of suing my ex landlord for 3x deposit.

If I left the property in a real mess, I bet I would still be the tenant then ay? The Landlord would sue me as the tenant wouldnt he? I'm not sure this argument will stand up in court, but I'm going to have a bloody good try!!

Please note, my advice is only my opinion.

If you have found my advice helpful, please tip my scales, thank you

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Hi, I am no longer a tenant and I am in the process of suing my ex landlord for 3x deposit.

If I left the property in a real mess, I bet I would still be the tenant then ay? The Landlord would sue me as the tenant wouldn't he? I'm not sure this argument will stand up in court, but I'm going to have a bloody good try!!

And you may well be successful.

 

It matters not a jot what you or I think, or how fair the law is. It rests with whatever the judge thinks on the day.

 

Sadly, to my knowledge, no DPS case has yet been appealed to a higher court. Thus there is no precedent for this aspect or others where the legislation appears to be poorly drafted.

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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Morning all,

 

My situation has changed somewhat now. I have decided to keep myself squeaky clean as a tenant, and reinstate my rent payments immediately. None have been missed, my next payment isn't due until the 16th.

 

I received a letter from my landlords solicitor on Saturday morning, stating quite clearly that in fact the extra £850 that the landlord holds is actually payment of rent in advance, and will be used to pay any shortcoming in rent. Apparently it's not a deposit at all! I have a signed contract, and a signed letter stating that my landlord holds my £850 deposit, so quite clearly, it IS a deposit. I pay my rent a month in advance every month, and on the first day of tenancy I paid £1700, for rent and deposit.

 

The other thing which I guess doesn't look great for the landlord is that he did not perform an inventory of the property when we moved in. Despite this I went to great lengths to ensure the carpets were spotless, the place was cleaned professionally etc. I'm hoping this should make me look good if it were to come to court. He also has another tennant directly above my old apartment, whose deposit will not be in a scheme either.

 

So, what do I do now? He's meeting his solicitor on Wednesday, and I think I'd like to start court proceedings against him. I understand I need to write him a letter before I can do this, but can anyone tell me exactly what I should be writing to him? What do I say to him apart from "I'm going to sue you for not having my deposit in a scheme within 14 days".

 

Do I need to seek legal advice as soon as possible? Anyone know a good place in Newcastle? :p

 

Damn, I'm so confused, this could be extremely expensive if it all goes wrong. :-?

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Morning all,

 

My situation has changed somewhat now. I have decided to keep myself squeaky clean as a tenant, and reinstate my rent payments immediately. None have been missed, my next payment isn't due until the 16th.

 

I received a letter from my landlords solicitor on Saturday morning, stating quite clearly that in fact the extra £850 that the landlord holds is actually payment of rent in advance, and will be used to pay any shortcoming in rent. Apparently it's not a deposit at all! I have a signed contract, and a signed letter stating that my landlord holds my £850 deposit, so quite clearly, it IS a deposit. I pay my rent a month in advance every month, and on the first day of tenancy I paid £1700, for rent and deposit.

 

The other thing which I guess doesn't look great for the landlord is that he did not perform an inventory of the property when we moved in. Despite this I went to great lengths to ensure the carpets were spotless, the place was cleaned professionally etc. I'm hoping this should make me look good if it were to come to court. He also has another tennant directly above my old apartment, whose deposit will not be in a scheme either.

 

So, what do I do now? He's meeting his solicitor on Wednesday, and I think I'd like to start court proceedings against him. I understand I need to write him a letter before I can do this, but can anyone tell me exactly what I should be writing to him? What do I say to him apart from "I'm going to sue you for not having my deposit in a scheme within 14 days".

 

Do I need to seek legal advice as soon as possible? Anyone know a good place in Newcastle? :p

 

Damn, I'm so confused, this could be extremely expensive if it all goes wrong. :-?

 

What rubbish!!!. Is obviously a deposit rather than rent in advance, otherwise you wouldnt have paid any rent until the 3rd month of the tenancy (as you would have paid the 1st and 2nd months in advance).

 

The legislation is quite clear on what a deposit is;

 

“tenancy deposit”, in relation to a shorthold tenancy, means any money intended to be held (by the landlord or otherwise) as security for—

(a)

the performance of any obligations of the tenant, or

 

(b)

the discharge of any liability of his, arising under or in connection with the tenancy.

 

Therefore an amount held to make up a possible 'shortfall' in rent is actually classed as a deposit under the act.

 

If you are going to proceed with the claim then, a LBA (letter before action) stating that if the deposit isnt protected within 14 days or returned to you in full, then you will submit a claim to the county court for the deposits return + x3 "compensation" without further communication. Fill out the N208 form and send it to him so he can see you mean business.

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Thanks Planner.

 

I don't think I can really demand the deposit back (can I?) since the tenancy is still ongoing. Actually I don't really expect it back until the tenancy is over, or at least until I've paid my last months rent in January.

 

I've seen a post somewhere which has suggested wording for the LBA, can anyone point me in the right direction? I can't seem to find it at all! There is also a thread on filling out the N208 form I believe. Do I send the N208 alongside my LBA?

 

Of course, the problem is that upon receiving the letter and speaking to his solicitor, if he has any sense he'll immediately put the money in to a scheme which kind of negates my claim. I wonder if I can use the letter from his solicitor stating that the money is not a deposit as some sort of leverage in court?

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Thanks Planner.

 

I don't think I can really demand the deposit back (can I?) since the tenancy is still ongoing. Actually I don't really expect it back until the tenancy is over, or at least until I've paid my last months rent in January. I dont see why not. If its not held in accordance with the law. Alternativley, if you have it in writing that it is rent in advance, then miss a months rent payment.

 

I've seen a post somewhere which has suggested wording for the LBA, can anyone point me in the right direction? I can't seem to find it at all! There is also a thread on filling out the N208 form I believe. Do I send the N208 alongside my LBA? It needs to say nothing more than suggested above. Send the completed N208 with it.

 

Of course, the problem is that upon receiving the letter and speaking to his solicitor, if he has any sense he'll immediately put the money in to a scheme which kind of negates my claim. I wonder if I can use the letter from his solicitor stating that the money is not a deposit as some sort of leverage in court? As previously stated, he can put the deposit into a scheme all the way up to the court hearing.

Once again, good luck.

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