Bailiffs have taken my van off my driveway, do i have a leg to stand on ?

[chris600uk]

Read this sticky it'll help with the form 4 complaint to the county court

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/115030-how-complain-court-about.html

[stanns]

hi tomtubby,

 

i have just been on the phone to the council, they said that no one in the office knows much about the fees etc and the only man who does is the head of recovery. They say he will be in the office later today and will call me with a matter of urgency. I told the person i just spoke to the fees the bailiffs charged charged me over the phone, and i assume he took a note of this. He said he couldnt comment and that the man in charge of recovery is the only person with any knowledge of these situations. He said he would pass this info on to the 'main man' and that the 'main man' would get in touch with the bailiffs and then be in touch with me. They also stated that the total amount i owe is £524.90 + £791.61 = £1316.51

 

Is there anything else i can do in the meantime, i only ask as i feel a little useless just sitting here, especially if there is something that i can do.

 

Cheers and thanks for your time.

Edited October 15, 2008 by stanns

[chris600uk]

Yeah! start filling in a form 4 complaint, you can download it here

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf

 

as for the regulation 46, haven't found that yet

[chris600uk]

The appellant makes a complaint to a justice of the peace and requests the issue of a summons requiring the authority whichlevied, or attempted to levy, the distress to appear before the court to answer to the matter bywhich the person is aggrieved. It is the local authority, and not the person who levied thedistress on their behalf, who must answer such a complaint in the magistrates’ court.

 

 

I think that means an N244 application which you can download here

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_e.pdf

 

 

 

TT, any comment?

[chris600uk]

SUGGESTED LETTER

 

The Chief Clerk

Anytown Magistrates Court

Address

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against --Enter name of City Council-- by virtue of Regulation 46 Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992.

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by ......... on ......... because the levy clearly fails to meet the requirements set out in the case of Ann Ambrose -v- Nottingham City Council.

 

I enclose a copy of the inventory that was left by ......... following the levy.

 

I trust this will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require further information.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I can't take the credit for finding that one - it looks great!

[chris600uk]

So you now know what to do, thanks to KJD

[stanns]

hi chris and thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

 

Will i now need to download and complete a form 4 complaint, along with a N244 application and take or send the suggested letter to the magistrates court ?

 

Also, in the blank fields on the suggested letter, do i just insert B&S or do i need to contact B&S to get the name of the bailiff who removed the van ?

 

Cheers and thanks.

[chris600uk]

No b&s cos the reg46 complaint is against the council,

 

the form 4 complaint is against the individual bailiff once you've got his name.

 

You could ring up b&s and ask for it, but don't get into a discussion about the debt.

[stanns]

hi, its now 11:30a.m. and i still havent heard back from the council regarding the fees. I'm still waiting to hear from the head of recovery.

 

I've also just come off the phone to B&S and they have given me the name of the bailiff who removed my van.

 

How do i go about checking that this bailiff is certified ?

 

Also, at what stage should complete all the prementioned forms?

 

any help would be much appreciated...cheers and thanks.

[KJD]

If the bailiff was not certificated then the van must be released but I am no longer allowed to search so will instead post details of the relevant court the B & S bailiffs' normally use.

 

There is something that you can do that is not used very often which is a Regulation 46 Complaint to the Magistrates Court to ask them to agree to remove the levy on the vehicle. This complaint is becoming far more common and we have seen many of these cases recently.It is a simple form that you need to take into your local Magistrates Court early tomorrow.

 

I will adapt one used a few days ago and post here for you later this morning.

 

Hopefully TT will be back on soon with the number so you can check the bailiff cert.

 

Also the letter in post 31 probably needs to be checked by TT. She mentioned that she will adapt the letter so may be different to the one posted. It talks about an incorrect levy so she may have questions to check if yours was indeed incorrect. Have you got a copy of the levy they made on your car? The wording seems to be quite important.

[stanns]

hi KJD and thanks for your response, much appreciated.

 

Firstly, i have just come off the phone to the OFT (020 7211 86081) and gave them the name of the bailiff that removed my van and the company he works for (B&S). The lady ran a search and found the company (B&S) and she stated that the name given by myself (the bailiffs name who removed my van) was not on the register as being certified by B&S.

 

Also, i received two letters through the door when the van was taken yesterday. The first was a white letter titled 'INVENTORY'. The letter only contains the registration and a description of the van and my name and address, there are no figures or anything else on the letter. The blue letter that accompanied the white letter is the one that has all the figures on it. These figures are accurate as i double checked them before posting them on here previously. They are as follows:

 

council tax = 524.90

levy fee = 42.00

council tax = 791.61

levy fee = 49.00

attendance to levy fees = 67.00

costs incurred in attendance to remove goods = 360.00

costs incurred in the removal of goods = 380.00

contractors fee incurred in the removal of goods = 175.00

redemption of goods fee(Head H) = 24.50

 

Sub Total = 2414.01

 

Cheers and thanks for your time, much appreciated.

[KJD]

Also, i received two letters through the door when the van was taken yesterday. The first was a white letter titled 'INVENTORY'. The letter only contains the registration and a description of the van and my name and address, there are no figures or anything else on the letter. The blue letter that accompanied the white letter is the one that has all the figures on it. These figures are accurate as i double checked them before posting them on here previously. They are as follows:

 

council tax = 524.90

levy fee = 42.00

council tax = 791.61

levy fee = 49.00

attendance to levy fees = 67.00

costs incurred in attendance to remove goods = 360.00

costs incurred in the removal of goods = 380.00

contractors fee incurred in the removal of goods = 175.00

redemption of goods fee(Head H) = 24.50

 

Sub Total = 2414.01

 

Cheers and thanks for your time, much appreciated.

 

Okay, so this raises a question which has occurred to me several times recently when reading peoples threads...

 

I thought that the idea of a levy is so that the bailiffs have some sort of 'collateral' on which to make you pay up. Ie, they levy on your van, so you can't do anything with it until you have either paid or come to an arrangement to pay. So, how come they can levy and then remove straight away? Surely that defeats the object. Or have I misunderstood?

 

Also, the figures above are clearly wrong because, as TT said, they can only charge one levy fee, even if for two 'debts'. And what's this costs + costs + contractors fee? That's a total of £915 to remove a van??

 

This link was posted on another thread yesterday re the fees which can be charged (thanks to jenjuly82)

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w16/jenjuly82/scan0001.jpg

 

I guess the problem is what is classed as "reasonable fees and expenses".

[KJD]

Also, the figures above are clearly wrong

 

"Wrong" as in overcharged, BTW, not that you have typed in the wrong figures.

[stanns]

hi, just for clarification, i have scanned in the two letters i received. May be these may shine some light on things....cheers

Auctiva Image Hosting

[tomtubby]

I am just adapting a Regulation 46 for you. Should be ready in about 20 mins.

 

Sorry for the delay.

[stanns]

hi, i have just come off the phone to the supervisor at the council tax office. The head of recovery didnt call me back so i called again and got passed onto the supervisor who stated the following;

 

She is not aware of any details in the contract that allows bailiffs to make two levy charges, she said she does not know any details of the contract and nor does anyone else at the office. She said she would have thought that a levy can be charged on each account, she then spoke to the information help desk or something and they too said, they thought that levys can be charged on each account. My thoughts after speaking to the supervisor is that nobody at the council tax office knows the details of the contract written between B&S and the council. The supervisor also stated that, all they do is contract a bailiff firm stating who owes money, the bailiff firm then collects the debt and charges whatever they wish.

 

The supervisor then stated, she had made a note for the manager for council tax to give me a ring as he may be able to enlighten me further.

 

SUMMARY:

 

At this moment in time i have found out that the bailiff who removed my van was not under license from B&S according to the search carried out this morning by the OFT, the search was carried out just using the bailiffs name and company(B&S).

 

I have also found out that i should have been informed that the van was going to be removed enabling me to remove my tools, i was not informed of a date for the removal of the van.

 

I have also found out that the council have no idea as to what bailiffs charge, they just pass them the debt, the bailiffs recover the amount and charge the recipient whatever they choose to.

 

At this moment in time i am none of the wiser as to what to do.

 

Also, is there any questions that i could ask the council tax manager other than whether or not it is written in their agreement about charging seperate levys?

 

cheers and thanks for your time.

[bobcatman]

watching with interest

[tomtubby]

The following is a Regulation 46 Complaint Letter. I have adapted this for you using the information provided in your posts. This can be further changed or adapted as you wish.

I will post back here later to advise what you need to do with this document.

The Chief Clerk

XXX Magistrates Court

 

 

October 15th 2008.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Council Ref: xxxxxx

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against Nottingham City Council by virtue of Regulation 46 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 as a matter of urgency.

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by Bristow & Sutor (Certificated Bailiffs) on 14th October 2008 for the following reason:

 

• I am a bricklayer by trade, and the levy was against a transit van that contained all of my work tools and which I believe is a “tool of the trade” for my use personally in the course of my employment. I am unable to work without this vehicle and its contents. The vehicle has been taken the vehicle pound by the bailiff after they removed the gates from my driveway. I am informed by them that the vehicle will be sold within 5 days.
  

• The bailiff was enforcing two separate Liability Orders on behalf of Nottingham City Council and has charged a sum of £915 for the removal of this van which has been broken down as follows:
  

Levy Fee 1: £42.00

Levy Fee 2: £49.00

Attending to Levy: £67.00

Attending to remove: £360

Removal: £380

Contractors Fees: £175

Head H Fee: £24.50

 

 

I am enclosing a copy of the Notice of Seizure that was left by the bailiff than confirms the charges applied to my account.

 

I trust that this information will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further information.

 

Yours faithfully.

[stanns]

hi tomtubby and thank you for taking the time to assemble a 46 complaint document. It is much appreciated to say the least.

 

I have now modified and saved the document and await further instructions from you.

 

I would also like to ask, would this document slow down the process of the bailiffs forwarding my van for auction?

 

cheers and thanks for your time.

[stanns]

hi folks, i'm trying to keep calm but at the same time i am starting to panic a little, time may be running out for me. The van was taken on tuesday and its now thursday, the bailiffs claim the van will go up for auction after 5 days...

 

I'm sitting with my fingers crossed...

 

 

cheers

[tomtubby]

I will respond further this evening as I am still at work.

[stanns]

hi TT, cheers and thanks, i do appreciate you taking time out to help me out and i also appreciate that you must be very busy too, so i'll just sit tight.

 

I would also like to ask, is therre anything else i can do regarding the bailiff that removed my van, he did not appear on the register during the search carried out by the OFT ?

 

Cheers and thanks.