Late Licencing Penalty

[Nemesis_Drake]

Hello All, I sold my motorcycle in April (it was raining) Duly filled out the V5C gave the correct portion to the new owner and then mailed the V5C to DVLA....I never had any other contact with DVLA until a demand for money fell on my doormat, What's this!

 

The letter goes on to tell how if I didn't receive a receipt from them within 4 weeks I'm liable for the "penalty" (Straight away my hand is up to be on the Germans side) Fortunately after owning the bike for 4 years I'd sort of figured out that the DVLA were slightly inept.....So I scanned the V5C before mailing it...After all it did take me 3 years to get the one I had!!!!

In my first letter I enclosed a print of the scanned image of the V5C clearly showing the new owners name and address.....And expected that to be the end of it....Now I have to contact DVLA as per the instructions on the rear of the V5C.

 

Below are the most recent letters.

 

Your Reference: NoMYexBIKE

Late Licensing Penalty: MYexBIKE

Dear MR Nemesis Drake

Thank you for your response concerning the late licensing penalty imposed upon you for failing to

relicense your vehicle as required¹ .

Although you have indicated that you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle, the Department has

not received notification of this².

When the department is advised that the keeper of the vehicle has changed we send an acknowledgment letter within 4 weeks of notification. It is a matter for you to pursue this letter. Details on this process can be found on the V5C. If you can provide an

acknowledgment letter that was issued prior to the Late Licensing penalty then no further action

will be taken.

However on the information before us you are still liable for the £80 penalty. Only payments received by 14/10/2008 are at the reduced rate of £40.00.

Please pay this penalty by cheque or postal orders made payable to 'DVLA', writing the vehicle registration mark on the back. The payment together with this letter should then be returned to the above address. Payments cannot be made by installments. If you wish to pay by debit / credit card please phone the above number.

Should you need to contact us, please quote the registration mark of the vehicle.

Yours sincerely

Mrs Thief

Enforcement Manager.

 

 

 

My proposed reply for your critique.

Late Licensing Penalty: MYexBIKE Your Ref NoandMYexBIKE

 

 

29/09/2008 1 Page with 2 images attached.

 

 

Dear Mrs Thief

 

 

Regarding your letter dated 23/09/2008 in which you state,

 

 

 

 

“Although you have indicated that you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle, the Department has

not received notification of this².

When the department is advised that the keeper of the vehicle has changed we send an acknowledgement letter within 4 weeks of notification. It is a matter for you to pursue this letter. Details on this process can be found on the V5C. If you can provide an

acknowledgement letter that was issued prior to the Late Licensing penalty then no further action

will be taken. “

 

 

I have read the section on a V5C document and it states...and I quote

 

 

“On receipt of a notification of Keeper change, DVLA will issue an acknowledgement letter after 4 weeks confirming that the Keeper has changed. You should keep the letter as a receipt”ª¹

 

 

As you will note more than 4 weeks have passed and I'm still waiting! You can be certain that when eventually it arrives I will indeed keep it.

I feel I have discharged my duty regarding the V5C.

I am of course assuming that the letter will be back dated?

 

 

With regards to regulation 22 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licencing) Regulations 2002.

You will note from my previous letter to yourself that the V5C was indeed duly completed with the name and address of the new keeper and was subsequently placed in the post on the 21/04/08 at Local PO.

Due to the previous experience with this motorcycle V5C I scanned the document prior to posting, as you can see from the V5C it took 3 years to originally get the V5C in my name!

 

 

If however you doubt that the dates and names on the scanned copy of the document are false I suggest you pass the matter on to the Police for investigation. I attach a copy to this letter in case you've misplaced the original. ª²

 

 

Hopefully this matter can now be considered closed? I certainly hope so!

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr Nemesis Drake

ª¹ Copy of this is attached.

ª² Copy of this is attached.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scanned image of rear section of V5C.....

 

 

 

I think I would rather have my day in court than give in to this mentality of "Pay up or else"

Edited September 29, 2008 by Nemesis_Drake
Made 5 posts and posted the V5 image

[21stcentury]

Hi Nemesis,

 

I was in a situation recently when the DVLA took me to court for supposed failure to notify a change of keeper. I didnt receive anything from them and just received a court summons for the matter. I appeared and fought them it took me 5mins in court and won, then proceeded to apply an order for costs. I also won that to. The DVLA tried to call it off at the 11th hour you will see my thread further down, got some good advice on it.

 

Think it is HELP REQUIRED!!! DVLA taking me to court thread.

 

 

 

 

Hello All, I sold my motorcycle in April (it was raining) Duly filled out the V5C gave the correct portion to the new owner and then mailed the V5C to DVLA....I never had any other contact with DVLA until a demand for money fell on my doormat, What's this!

 

The letter goes on to tell how if I didn't receive a receipt from them within 4 weeks I'm liable for the "penalty" (Straight away my hand is up to be on the Germans side) Fortunately after owning the bike for 4 years I'd sort of figured out that the DVLA were slightly inept.....So I scanned the V5C before mailing it...After all it did take me 3 years to get the one I had!!!!

In my first letter I enclosed a print of the scanned image of the V5C clearly showing the new owners name and address.....And expected that to be the end of it....Now I have to contact DVLA as per the instructions on the rear of the V5C.

 

Below are the most recent letters.

 

Your Reference: NoMYexBIKE

Late Licensing Penalty: MYexBIKE

Dear MR Nemesis Drake

Thank you for your response concerning the late licensing penalty imposed upon you for failing to

relicense your vehicle as required¹ .

Although you have indicated that you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle, the Department has

not received notification of this².

When the department is advised that the keeper of the vehicle has changed we send an acknowledgment letter within 4 weeks of notification. It is a matter for you to pursue this letter. Details on this process can be found on the V5C. If you can provide an

acknowledgment letter that was issued prior to the Late Licensing penalty then no further action

will be taken.

However on the information before us you are still liable for the £80 penalty. Only payments received by 14/10/2008 are at the reduced rate of £40.00.

Please pay this penalty by cheque or postal orders made payable to 'DVLA', writing the vehicle registration mark on the back. The payment together with this letter should then be returned to the above address. Payments cannot be made by installments. If you wish to pay by debit / credit card please phone the above number.

Should you need to contact us, please quote the registration mark of the vehicle.

Yours sincerely

Mrs Thief

Enforcement Manager.

 

 

 

My proposed reply for your critique.

Late Licensing Penalty: MYexBIKE Your Ref NoandMYexBIKE

 

 

29/09/2008 1 Page with 2 images attached.

 

 

Dear Mrs Thief

 

 

Regarding your letter dated 23/09/2008 in which you state,

 

 

 

 

“Although you have indicated that you are no longer the keeper of the vehicle, the Department has

not received notification of this².

When the department is advised that the keeper of the vehicle has changed we send an acknowledgement letter within 4 weeks of notification. It is a matter for you to pursue this letter. Details on this process can be found on the V5C. If you can provide an

acknowledgement letter that was issued prior to the Late Licensing penalty then no further action

will be taken. “

 

 

I have read the section on a V5C document and it states...and I quote

 

 

“On receipt of a notification of Keeper change, DVLA will issue an acknowledgement letter after 4 weeks confirming that the Keeper has changed. You should keep the letter as a receipt”ª¹

 

 

As you will note more than 4 weeks have passed and I'm still waiting! You can be certain that when eventually it arrives I will indeed keep it.

I feel I have discharged my duty regarding the V5C.

I am of course assuming that the letter will be back dated?

 

 

With regards to regulation 22 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licencing) Regulations 2002.

You will note from my previous letter to yourself that the V5C was indeed duly completed with the name and address of the new keeper and was subsequently placed in the post on the 21/04/08 at Local PO.

Due to the previous experience with this motorcycle V5C I scanned the document prior to posting, as you can see from the V5C it took 3 years to originally get the V5C in my name!

 

 

If however you doubt that the dates and names on the scanned copy of the document are false I suggest you pass the matter on to the Police for investigation. I attach a copy to this letter in case you've misplaced the original. ª²

 

 

Hopefully this matter can now be considered closed? I certainly hope so!

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr Nemesis Drake

ª¹ Copy of this is attached.

ª² Copy of this is attached.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scanned image of rear section of V5C.....

 

 

 

I think I would rather have my day in court than give in to this mentality of "Pay up or else"

[Nemesis_Drake]

Cheers I'll take a look.....Costs....There's something I hadn't considered!

[21stcentury]

Hi Nemesis,

 

The only comment I have got regarding costs is you will have to prove as much as possible. A letter from your employer/accountant stating that you have lost xxxxx amount. Time to research your case, telephone costs, stamps, internet usage, printer costs. Now I gave them a letter from my accountant to confirm loss of income, gave then an internet bill for one month, phone bill for one month, and I went into my local taxi office and got two of their cards, and wrote on the back of them, two receipts from my house to court, and the other for the return journey.

 

So when I won, I asked the magistrates to hear my petition for costs. I stated what Pat Davies in my post stated and they agreed with the evidence that I had and awarded costs in my favour.

 

It was that easy, no problem at all. It was the quickers 20mins in court that I have ever spent.

 

All the best

[Yellow160]

But it also says on the back of the V5c that the DVLA will issue an acknowledgement letter after 4 weeks confirming that the keeper has changed. You should keep the letter as receipt, In the event that you receive further correspondence concerning the vehicle. If you do not receive this receipt please contact the DVLA on 08702400010.

 

Did you not call them when you never received the letter after 4 weeks?

Edited October 3, 2008 by Yellow160
spelling

[crem]

But it also says on the back of the V5c that the DVLA will issue an acknowledgement letter after 4 weeks confirming that the keeper has changed. You should keep the letter as receipt, In the event that you receive further correspondence concerning the vehicle. If you do not receive this receipt please contact the DVLA on 08702400010.

 

Did you not call them when you never received the letter after 4 weeks?

 

The key word that 21stcentury fought this on was it says DVLA will send a letter AFTER 4 weeks. 10 weeks is AFTER 4 weeks as is 25. He is still waiting. The correct phrase to use to convey the DVLA's intentions should have been "the DVLA will issue an acknowledgement WITHIN 4 weeks." This been the circumstances 21stcentury would have contacted them in the 5th week I am sure.

[Nemesis_Drake]

No need for me to answer.... Cheers crem!

 

One thing I now have to do is contact DVLA to find out where the V5C is and get it to the new owner.

[Nemesis_Drake]

Dear Mr Nemesis Drake

 

Thank you for your recent letter concerning the late licensing penalty imposed upon you for

failing to relicense your vehicle as required.

 

The keeper details you have provided will be used to update our records and an

acknowledgement letter should be sent to you within the next 4 weeks. If you do not receive

this letter phone 0870 2400010.

 

Although you may no longer be the owner of this vehicle we did not receive notification that the

vehicle had been sold and subsequently you remained legally responsible for the relicensing the vehicle.

 

In your letter of 29/09/08 you brought our attention to exerts from the 'Continuous Registration Explained' section on the V5C form. However you seem to have failed to note the continuing advice given in the same paragraph you kindly quoted being "If you do not receive this receipt please contact DVLA on 0870 240 0010".

 

Therefore on the information before us, you are still liable for the £80.00 penalty. Only payments received by 17/10/08 are at the reduced rate of £40.00.

 

Please pay this penalty by cheque or postal orders made payable to 'DVLA', writing the vehicle

registration mark on the back. The payment together with this letter should then be returned to

the above address. Payments cannot be made by instalments. If you wish to pay by direct debit /

credit card please phone the above number.

 

I have prepared a reply.....

 

 

Nemesis Drake Ref: Late Licensing Penalty:

 

A Road

UK

Postcode

 

Dear Mrs Idiot

 

Regarding your letter dated 03/10/2008

 

I feel that now you are resorting to semantics in your attempts to either “bluff or bluster” me

into paying the “penalty” for in your words “failing to relicense your vehicle as required¹” As you are

updating your records to show that I was no longer the owner when the vehicle became unlicensed I

would have thought you would have dropped your present line of pursuing me for not having done

that which is in all events impossible!

 

 

Furthermore you quote an irrelevant line from the V5C namely “If you do not receive this receipt

please contact DVLA on 0870 240 0010” You will have seen from the complete copy of the V5C

section which I sent that:

 

 

“On receipt of a notification of keeper change, DVLA will issue an

acknowledgement letter after 4 weeks confirming that the keeper has

changed. You should keep the letter as a receipt, in the event that you

receive further correspondence concerning the vehicle. If you do not

receive this receipt please contact DVLA on  0870 240 0010.

Customers with impaired hearing who have a textphone/minicom

should ring 01792 766426.”

 

 

I find the preceding paragraph unambiguous and the use of the word “after” to be well defined with

no time limit requiring any action be taken!

 

 

In conclusion I no longer wish to enter into correspondence with regards to this matter, further I

would rather the next letter you send me either have “Case dropped” or “You are hereby

summoned” in the header.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

Not scared of you!

 

 

Although I doubt this thickie twin will understand the finer points of the English language at least I was hoping she would grasp "after" for what it means! and that yet again she wouldn't go posting crap through my letterbox......Can you tell I'm getting annoyed with her?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Or should I just go to court so I can report back on her educational standard?

[buzby]

For info, I can advise what happens officially when the new owner plans to take the bike/car out of GB.

 

NOTHING!

 

Having returned the 'Export' vehicle slip - I made a mental note that I wanted some official confirmation that I had been removed from any liability for Continuous Registration. After hearing nothing, I emailed the DVLA go confirm I was no longer the RK.

 

They advised that I was indeed no longer the RK as the vehicle had been exported. I asked where was my confirmation of this, and was told THEY DO NOT PROVIDE the former keeper with any documentation showing the ending of liability for Continuous Registration!

 

Asking why the rules were so different between a UK RK change and an export, I was told I could always call them up and ask!

 

Continuous Registration/SORN is the DVLA equivalent of the PArking [problematic] - the sooner this is rectified, the better.

[gwc1000]

Another thing to consider is that just because DVLA print on the V5 that if you don't receive the receipt for the change of ownership you should chase it, it does not automatically follow that is the law. When selling a vehicle you are required by law to post either the green or yellow slip to DVLA informing them of the change of ownership. This you complied with. I know of no law which states that if you have no confirmation from DVLA that you are required to either contact DVLA or re-submit the information. I cannot imagine that a prosecutor in Court could use what the DVLA choose to print on a V5 and claim it as a legal obligation, if no such law exists.

Edited October 4, 2008 by gwc1000

[foolishgirl]

I cannot imagine that a prosecutor in Court could use what the DVLA choose to print on a V5 and claim it as a legal obligation, if no such law exists.

 

Absolutely! JohnH2008 has just got a DJ to agree on this point, along with other stupid Capita comments & 'regulations'.

 

The thread is here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/155894-sorn-statements.html

 

The more people take Capita (aka DVLA) to court on this one, the better. Look how the trickle on bank charges has grown to a flood with consumer pressure.

[Nemesis_Drake]

I've just realised that probably thousands of people each year just pay these monkeys the £40 to avoid any "hassle".......or risk of the double "penalty" (My wife would have paid up straight away) Myself I just can't face giving these monkeys a "purpose"....

 

 

I'm wondering if I could get this escalated (if it ever gets to a court date) to a higher court?

 

One thing that sticks in my craw is the premium rate number I keep being given.......How can it be fair to charge over and above the national rate to phone a government agency?

 

 

I read Johns case with interest Foolishgirl A good and fair result!!!

[callumsgran]

No need for me to answer.... Cheers crem!

 

One thing I now have to do is contact DVLA to find out where the V5C is and get it to the new owner.

They've probably creamed £25 off that poor sod to supply it as well

 

Someone should take DVLA on, they've become right ribbing bistards

[Nemesis_Drake]

They've probably creamed £25 off that poor sod to supply it as well

 

Someone should take DVLA on, they've become right ribbing bistards

 

I can't see it...He had the tear off "New keeper" slip......It took me 3 years to get the V5C in my name so....I think they are slightly inefficient...or is that incompetent

[callumsgran]

I can't see it...He had the tear off "New keeper" slip......It took me 3 years to get the V5C in my name so....I think they are slightly inefficient...or is that incompetent

Do you know for certain whether or not he's had his v5c back?

BTW ive just sorned one of my vehicles online, as its the safest option

[Nemesis_Drake]

Do you know for certain whether or not he's had his v5c back?

BTW ive just sorned one of my vehicles online, as its the safest option

I doubt whether he's applied for it.....DVLA came for me.

[patdavies]

One thing that sticks in my craw is the premium rate number I keep being given.......How can it be fair to charge over and above the national rate to phone a government agency?

 

 

Whilst not being in any way supportive of DVLA, 0870 is not a premium rate number (they all start 09...).

 

0870 numbers are being phased out by OfCOM. Originally, 0870 was national rate (even if you lived next door; 0845 was local rate (from anywhere); 0800 was free (paid by the recipient).

[Nemesis_Drake]

It's a premium rate to me....If it started with it's area code it would be free....And if it started 0845 it would be cheaper....Which in my book makes it a premium rate.

[patdavies]

It's a premium rate to me....If it started with it's area code it would be free....And if it started 0845 it would be cheaper....Which in my book makes it a premium rate.

 

Then try here for a translation from 0870 to geographic number

[TheChancellor]

I doubt whether he's applied for it.....DVLA came for me.

 

Have you thought of contacting the new owner?

 

If the RK details were updated then DVLA obviously knew you were now the ex-RK on such-a-such date.

 

It's either total incompitence down there or one big [problem] so I send everything RD that I can't do online.

[Nemesis_Drake]

Have you thought of contacting the new owner?

 

If the RK details were updated then DVLA obviously knew you were now the ex-RK on such-a-such date.

 

It's either total incompitence down there or one big [problem] so I send everything RD that I can't do online.

 

I'd go for completely incompetent! I received a letter from Moorcroft debt recovery today......If I was made of weak stuff it may worry me.......I'm looking forward to abusing these guys

 

 

According to their letter I may be prosecuted and fined £1000, My vehicle may be clamped (I presume the one I don't own) Or it may be impounded and destroyed......I'm shaking in my boots.

 

Not too sure how to proceed....Do I answer the door naked and invite them in? or polish a huge ornamental sword while talking to them....