Urgent Advice For Repairs On Rented Property

[andy2708]

Hi,

I need some urgent advice regarding some repairs that are needed to the property we rent through a letting agent. The house we rent was initially converted from a shop to two houses. We rent one of the houses through a letting agent (Regal Estates). The bathroom in this property was originally a store room of some sort and then converted to its new use as a bathroom. The room is about 12' x 12', quite large for a bathroom and the only ventilation is from a small extractor fan (about 100mm in diameter) and a small window with a letterbox style top opener. Everytime we have a shower the room fills with steam and condensates badly. The walls/lino floor become quite wet and take some time to dry. The ceiling has damp patches from this problem and the outer walls feel constantly damp. We highlighted this problem to the letting agent within the first couple of months of our tenancy. They promised to contact the landlord (who lives abroad in Spain). To date nothing has been done to sort the problem, even with constant reminders to the letting agent to get the problem resolved.

 

On Monday of this week (22nd September) I slipped over in the bathroom on the damp lino floor and fractured my ankle and am now off work for some time. I contacted the letting agent to notify them of this and to see if we could come to an agreement on getting a resolve to the condensation problem. Again I was told that they would contact the landlord to notify them of the problem and see what action they would like to take. I know from past contact with them that the landlord will probably not do anything about this. I know feel that with the injury incurred enough is enough. Can anybody advise where I stand legally. I have read through the tenancy agreement and the Landlords' responsibilities under the Defective Premises Act 1972 which states under the Negligence and Nuisance section:

 

A landlord can be taken to court for negligence or nuisance. Negligence arises if someone has been injured or property has been damaged because the landlord has breached a duty of care. A duty of care is likely to be breached if the landlord has acted unreasonably or has not acted where s/he should have, and the problem was 'reasonably foreseeable'.

 

As the letting agent was notified of this problem over two years ago surely this can be classed as ‘reasonably foreseeable’.

 

We have been renting this property since November 2005 and the contract is up for renewal in March 2009.

 

Any advice or guides this legal issue would be greatly appreciated.

[MrShed]

I cannot comment fully on this, as ultimately I have not seen the room.

 

However, the ventilation sounds well within regulations, hence there is no negligence.

 

In addition, I cannot see any court granting you anything as I do not feel that NOT preventing a bathroom from being wet is negligent. Indeed, they may(and probably will) find that you were negligent in not taking due care in an environment which by its nature is wet and on unsafe footing.

[callumsgran]

I fear these 'had an accident? no win no fee' solicitors would disagree with that to be honest

I know one thing, i would definitely be seeking legal advice on this issue

[MrShed]

I fear these 'had an accident? no win no fee' solicitors would disagree with that to be honest

 

I dont value their opinion lol.

 

In any event, I can only advise on my personal opinion, and with the facts given. I would say that given the conditions and building regs, it is probable that the landlord did everything REASONABLY possible for him to do.

[callumsgran]

Not sure tbh, we dont even know if there is any heating in place

I'm assuming there isnt if it takes a long time to dry out

Maybe the landlord should've laid non-slip vinyl to protect himself from personal injury claims if he didnt want to make the bathroom acceptable

I dont call mould acceptable, do you?

[MrShed]

No but it depends on the origination of the mould. Besides, I cannot see a reference to mould?

[callumsgran]

Damp, mould all the same to me lol

Damp usually leads to mould given time

[andy2708]

I appreciate your comments, callumsgran but Mr Shed should maybe appreciate arguing over what is mould or damp is not helping with my problem.

 

To update futher there is mould on the ceiling and the walls are definitely damp as we have tried to fix things to the wall and when we drill into the bricks they just crumble!

 

I’m not looking to sue the landlord for my accident I just want the problems resolved, this query is not about vengeance just resolution.

[MrShed]

I appreciate your comments, callumsgran but Mr Shed should maybe appreciate arguing over what is mould or damp is not helping with my problem.

 

And with respect, perhaps you should realise that it wasnt me who began that particular line of discussion. And also, with respect, perhaps you should appreciate comments other than just from those who agree with you.

[MrShed]

With regards your problem, again I cannot comment fully without having seen the bathroom. What I would say is that the landlord is only required to meet basis safety and building regulations. My reading of this(going PURELY on what I am able to from what you have posted) is that he has met those regulations, and hence there is no "problem" to resolve.

 

Ultimately, no-one can actually decide this for you, as we cannot see and examine the conditions in question. Although photographs would certainly assist.

[andy2708]

I came on this forum to resolve a problem not start an argument. I’m not after respect, sympathy or sueing anybody just a resolve to the situation. I was purely stating what is written legaly about Negligence as a last resort. I’m just after guidance and a route to follow. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t seen the bathroom or not, just clear simple advice, nothing else.

[MrShed]

Andy - please do not start taking offence etc. I have no intention of beginning or continuing an argument, I just do however take umbrage when my point of view is not taken in as high regard as others, simply because it is not what is wanted. However, will let this go for now

 

This is simple advice - how do you expect us to establish whether there is a problem if we cannot see the problem in question? You want to know a route to follow, but I cannot currently advise whether you have any legally, without knowing if the landlord is breaking the law.

 

Some things can be advised on fully and agreed on via text. Some cannot. This is one that cannot. Believe it or not, I am on your side - if I can advise I will, and I would like to advise on a course to follow. But I cannot advise you to follow certain procedures without knowing if you have the right to do so.

[andy2708]

Okay, I understand. We got off on the wrong footing due to somebody elses opinions. I look forward to hearing your course of action. Is there a way of attaching pictures to this forum.

[MrShed]

OK I'll tell you what - lets start again

 

There are three areas of concern/law here to address.

 

Building regulations

 

The main one that will spring to mind as being applicable. These are NOT reciprocal, meaning that bathrooms only have to meet regulations upon creation. This means that this bathroom will not(almost certainly) be required to meet with CURRENT regulations, as defined by Part F in the Building Regulations 2006.

 

In any event, the building regs do not even require a window for ventilation, as long as ventilation needs are met. This ventilation need is 8litre/sec continuous, 15litre/sec burst. Needless to say, whether these ventilation requirements are met I could not begin to hazard a guess, but I suspect they are(those requirements are not particularly high, and the window alone probably does it).

 

Further reading: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADF_2006.pdf

 

Damp

 

The damp issue needs to be resolved by the landlord. However, this depends if it is true "damp" or in fact just condensation. If it is condensation, the landlord needs do nothing. Additionally, the landlord need not resolve the damp issue during the tenancy until and unless it reaches such point that it impacts upon your usage of the property - either functionally or due to health issues.

 

General duty of care

 

This is the biggy, and the one which is open for debate to an extent. The landlord has a general duty of care to you as a tenant. This is effectively the same as the duty of care you have if you provide a public space(i.e. if you went to McDonalds, the company has a duty of care to ensure the area is safe and fit for purpose etc). These laws are not covered specifically in Landlord/Tenant law, and is basically up to general H+S laws and "due diligence". H+S law is basically about minimising risk, as opposed to removing it. Due diligence basically means was everything done to minimise issues that was REASONABLE to do so. In other words, it is not reasonable to completely rebuild a bathroom(for example) to prevent health issues, but it may be reasonable to put measures in place to minimise them.

 

This would be what you would be pushing if you wanted to pursue anything. However, the question you are really asking is whether the landlord is NEGLIGENT in allowing the environment to continue to cause "excessive" amounts of condensation. This is whether or not you intend to pursue for negligence - what I mean by this is, the landlord only NEEDS to correct if negligent - hope that makes sense.

 

My opinion, as shown above I guess, is that the landlord is NOT negligent in this situation. My reasoning for this is that the bathroom is naturally a damp place where condensation occurs. As such, there is an obligation in part on the user of the bathroom(i.e. yourself) to treat the area as hazardous(at least, as an area with potential risks), and act accordingly.Moreover, the landlord cannot be expected to begin remodelling windows/window layout to decrease this provided the existing solutions meet ventilation building regs. IMO, there is nothing extra the landlord can do that is REASONABLE to expect him to do. WiHowever, I appreciate three things:

 

- This is clearly open for interpretation.

- It is difficult to say definitively without analysing the area.

- My opinion actually does not matter in the grand scheme.

 

OK basically two avenues you should pursue(to be honest, must admit that above is mainly for reference than anything!!! ):

 

- WRITE a letter to the letting agent, stating that you consider the bathroom to be dangerous, and that YOU CONSIDER the landlord to be in breach of his duty of care to you. At this moment in time, you do not wish to pursue the matter further but you do require remedial works/extra ventilation put in place within 14 days of the letter. This avenue is primarily to attempt to encourage the landlord to resolve issues, REGARDLESS of his legal obligations.

- Contact Environmental Health. They will be able to assess whether the bathroom meets building regs, whether ventilation is adequate, and most importantly whether they feel that the landlord is failing in his duty of care, and is acting negligently. They will also be able to assess the damp.

Edited September 24, 2008 by MrShed

[andy2708]

Hi, the last section of your reply didn’t coming through. Can you repost.

[MrShed]

In addition, forget about the pictures

[MrShed]

Hi, the last section of your reply didn’t coming through. Can you repost.

 

Have edited got bored of typing the full whack so had a breather!!!

[MrShed]

Apologies by the way if part of my post was a "suck eggs" scenario - was just trying to be thorough