Appeal or got to tribunal?

[storm123]

EDIT: sorry title should read appeal or go to tribunal.

 

 

Hi everyone. Been looking through these forums for the past 2-3 months to help me understand employment issues and I now feel I need to ask for some advice.

 

I raised a grievance against my manager who had done various things to me; e.g. denied me my break, used inappropriate language towards me, humiliated me in front of others and then threatened me with disciplinary action for keeping a religious beard.

 

I raised the grievance in the middle of April when my GP had diagnosed me with stress.

 

The letter was acknowledged but nothing was done. A month later I had a word with the area manager who then said he would look into it. Eventually I was called into investigation interview at the end of May.

 

I got a response yesterday to tell me that no action would be taken against my manager. The response letter seemed to defend the actions of my manager and it felt as though the points I had put forward were dismissed.

 

I have spoken to a couple of colleagues who were witnesses to the incidents and they have both told me they have not been interviewed. I find this very strange and it makes me question what sort of investigation or more likely cover up has been conducted.

I have also spoke to the case manager and simply asked whether any witness statements were taken. They are refusing to even answer this question. I'm not even asking them for the names of the witnesses just whether any witnesses were interviewed.

 

I have been told I can appeal within 7 days. I feel as though these internal hearings are simply a way of covering up breaches. I have no confidence in any appeal and was wondering should I proceed to an employment tribunal instead.

 

Also it is coming up to three months since these incidents. I have read that incidents need to be brought to the attention of a tribunal within 3 months and on some occasions 6 months. I personally have felt that due to the severity of the issues in my case the company has deliberately stretched this out to use up the three months. Should I go straight to tribunal or should I appeal?

 

I am not a member of a trade union.

 

Ask me for more info if it doesn’t make sense.

Edited June 26, 2008 by storm123
Mis-spelt the title

[paulgmb]

Hi and welcome to the forums.

You would need to exhaust the internal grievance procedure before you proceed to tribunal to show that you had made every attempt to resolve your grievance with your employer but you should not wait until the end of this procedure before registering with the tribunal. You may want to speak to ACAS on this or others here who are more adverse with employment law (like Sidewinder) will advise I'm sure.

You should not have been called to an investigation interview if it is you that has raised the grievance. You should be invited to your grievance meeting and be able to put your case to the investigating manager and present your evidence and provide supporting statements and call any witnesses. If you disagree with their findings you should take it to the next stage until the matter is resolved or you exhaust the procedure.

They should also stick to timescales laid down in their own policy. Whilst there should always be flexability on both sides inthe interest of fair play, if the policy says with 14 days for example, it would not be unreasonable if after 21 days you took it to the next level based on the fact they have not adhered to their own policy and procedure by trying to ignore you hopeing you will go away which is a common tactic.

I note you are not a member of a Union which is a shame, but you can still take a colleague with you who could take notes and this is always useful later on when management deny what was said in the meeting!

I hope this is useful?

Regards,

Paul.

[storm123]

Hi paulgmb,

Thank you for your response.

Just to clarify I was called into a grievance meeting. I've never been through a grievance procedure so wasn't quite aware of all the right words.

The company grievance policy does not state a time frame in which they will deal with grievances so they are running their own reign in that respect.

I have been given 7 days within which to appeal. Is it normal for such a short time frame?

 

Also I desperately need to see witness statements and my manager's statement. Can I ask for a copy of these and how do I go about it?

I spoke to HR today who were not understanding that without me seeing what has been said how can I put together an appeal.

This is so frustrating and stressful.

[paulgmb]

Hi,

I assume by an appeal they mean that if you are unhappy by the decision then you can take it to the next stage of the grievance procedure?

7days is quite common, sometimes it is more, sometimes it is silent. I have seen one where it was 3 days.

Where have the witness statements come form, your witnesses or theirs?

You should request in writing access to all statements to keep the whole process open, honest and transparent. I'm not sure there is any "right" to see them but witholding them in my opinion would be unreasonable. You need to know on what they have based their decision. Do they not refer to this in their decision?

Example; x said this and y said that, therefore our decision/conclusion is......

Regards,

Paul.

[storm123]

Hi Paul.

Thank you again for your response.

Unfortunately they are not telling me who they interviewed. I gave three names of witnesses and after speaking with two of them they have stated they have not been interviewed. It seems that over the last two months they have done absolutely nothing but waste my time.

 

I will be appealing the decision and as part of my appeal I will be asking for witness statements. I'm not going to hold my breath for them as this all seems to be some internal cover up.

 

As for the decision, they do go through each point and tell me there is no case.

For example I was denied my break and their response was this has now been explained and resolved.

Another point was the manager used inappropriate language directly towards me using a number of F words. The company feels that because he uses this language with others it is ok. They even say they condone its use in their response letter.

I must be working for one of the biggest cowboy companies out there.

[storm123]

A bit of a new question. All welcome to reply.

I am considering putting in a very poor appeal so that this can be escalated to a tribunal in a swift manner.

I feel that my initial letter of grievance and the subsequent meeting were strong enough to get my points across. As I have no faith in the company's internal procedures I feel this would be the right thing to do.

When it does go to tribunal would it be frowned upon on me for not putting together a more comprehensive appeal?

Does anyone have any experience of doing this?

[stanroyal]

During a redundancy a group of us appealed. The Union rep handled it and he simply went through their reasons for redundancy and asking them to confirm that they stood by them and they were correct. Just a formality which kept the door open for going to a tribunal in each and every case.

 

You could simply go through their decision and ask them if they still wish to stick to each point without trying to give more evidence. You have already given them your grievance grounds. Unless there have been more incidents since your original grievance which you could try to add in.... I can't see that more would be expected. Particularly (as in my case) you know that there is no real appeal and no real expectation of them changing their decision.

[storm123]

Thank you stanroyal for you response.

 

I think I will send a very basic appeal similar to what you have described.

I would much prefer for this to go straight to an independent tribunal.

[paulgmb]

Hi again,

You have to show to a Tribunal that you have made every attempt to resolve it at the workplace through their internal procedures. Its difficult to say if what you suggest would work or be counter productive.

Why not call the witnesses yourself to the next grievance meeting?

That way management will have to take into account what they say and it would (or at least should) be minuted. Remember this is your meeting.

Regards,

Paul.