MBNA Vs TETSUO (three pronged attack)

[TETSUO]

Hi all,

 

I would really appreciate some advice or support from anyone in a similar position to me, or with the knowledge to help me get this right first time.

 

I am about to launch a three pronged effort to get MBNA off my back once and for all.

 

I have been paying over £300 interest on MBNA credit cards for a long while now, and the balance is not dropping (sitting at over £10,000), and I cannot afford to pay them any more.

 

I am going to tell them that my circumstances have changed and that I can't afford to pay them any more, my £300+ payments are going to drop to to way below the minimum required, to say- under £100 per month. I am going to advise them (in writing) that I can no longer make minimum payments. I am planning to detail all my outgoings and incomings. The outgoing being greater than what is coming in. I intend to advise them that I am consdering an IVA or Bankrupcy, however...

 

I have come into a small amount of money, say £5000 - £6000 and I would prefer to settle my debt with them , rather than go down the DCA, IVA or Bankrupcy route.

 

If I combine this, with a CCA, and SAR do you think that MBNA would rather take, say, 50% of what the debt is worth to them, bearing in mind that they could end up with very little at all if they pass it to a DCA, or if I was to go for an IVA / Bankrupcy?

 

They can sniff around my credit file all they like, they will not find anything on there that doesn't reflect exactly what I am telling them, and the money I have come into is not as a result of gaining credit elsewhere....

 

My questions...

 

 

1. Am I wrong to reduce payments to below the minimum required?
   
2. Is it adviseable to send the SAR and CCA requests (I am hoping to equip myself with more bargaining ammo here)
   
3. Will MBNA negotiate, and clear my credit file, as well as marking the files as "settled" as part of the deal?
   
4. Are there any holes in my plan that I have not considered?
   

Any help, or advice would be gretly appreciated.

 

Cheers

[miss muppet]

Hi all,

 

I would really appreciate some advice or support from anyone in a similar position to me, or with the knowledge to help me get this right first time.

 

I am about to launch a three pronged effort to get MBNA off my back once and for all.

 

I have been paying over £300 interest on MBNA credit cards for a long while now, and the balance is not dropping (sitting at over £10,000), and I cannot afford to pay them any more.

 

I am going to tell them that my circumstances have changed and that I can't afford to pay them any more, my £300+ payments are going to drop to to way below the minimum required, to say- under £100 per month. I am going to advise them (in writing) that I can no longer make minimum payments. I am planning to detail all my outgoings and incomings. The outgoing being greater than what is coming in. I intend to advise them that I am consdering an IVA or Bankrupcy, however...

 

I have come into a small amount of money, say £5000 - £6000 and I would prefer to settle my debt with them , rather than go down the DCA, IVA or Bankrupcy route.

 

If I combine this, with a CCA, and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) do you think that MBNA would rather take, say, 50% of what the debt is worth to them, bearing in mind that they could end up with very little at all if they pass it to a DCA, or if I was to go for an IVA / Bankrupcy?

 

They can sniff around my credit file all they like, they will not find anything on there that doesn't reflect exactly what I am telling them, and the money I have come into is not as a result of gaining credit elsewhere....

 

My questions...

 

 

1. Am I wrong to reduce payments to below the minimum required?
   
2. Is it adviseable to send the SAR and CCA requests (I am hoping to equip myself with more bargaining ammo here)
   
3. Will MBNA negotiate, and clear my credit file, as well as marking the files as "settled" as part of the deal?
   
4. Are there any holes in my plan that I have not considered?
   

Any help, or advice would be gretly appreciated.

 

Cheers

1. No, if you are finding payments beyond your means.

2. Depends which route you wan't to go, if there are charges on the account or whether you want to see if the agreement is enforceable.

3. MBNA are not easy to deal with and you will endure plenty of threats but they will be in a weaker position if the agreement is unenforceable.

You will see other people trying this approach too once they have CCA'd and nothing is forthcoming.

No doubt other more experienced people will come along soon but hope this helps.

[TETSUO]

I guess the main partof my plan is the inability to pay, and whether MBNA would rather walk away with something over nothing....

 

The SAR and CCa are secindary, but may come in usefull.

 

It's exciting but a little scary also...

[hamish2008]

Hi all,

 

They can sniff around my credit file all they like, they will not find anything on there that doesn't reflect exactly what I am telling them, and the money I have come into is not as a result of gaining credit elsewhere....

 

 

I don't know exactly what the legal position is related to this but I know of other threads where MBNA have used information on credit files to intimidate people - the information stored is purely a payment record and does not show where the payment is coming from - on my credit report the only thing wrong is the fact that I haven't made my contractual minimum payments to Virgin - everything else is being paid but the majority of these are paid by insurance. I'm almost certain that MBNA cannot ask you to disclose your agreements or the lack of them with other creditors.

[TETSUO]

Hi Hamish (also my Cat's name)

 

The thing is that MBNA sniff around my credit files as much as they like. They will be suspicious about where I got the money from, whether my file is good enough to consider for a consolidatory loan, or to see if I am exaggerating my financial situation. They won't find anything to contradict what I am telling them, the money hasn't come from further credit, and they have well and truly contributed to my (currently poor) credit rating.

 

I guess it is going to come down to how pig headed they want to be, and how brave I am prepared to be.....

 

I have drafted a letter already, but am in two minds whether I want to post it on here.

 

If anyone wants to see it, I can pvt msg them with it I guess?

 

Thanks for you input Hamish - much appreciated!

[TETSUO]

Got a weird and unexpected letter from MBNA today. I don't know if this is cooincidence, but I phoned them the other day (before I posted this thread) and told them that I would be coming in to a bit of money in September. I didn't tell them where it was coming from (though they did ask) and I did mention IVA/Bankruptcy.

 

This is what the letter said...

 

 

***

 

Dear Tetsuo,

 

Account: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

That you for your recent payment of £150, received on 3rd June 2008. As a result of your continued payments by our due date, we have restructured your account. Whilst this does not alter your current balance, it does mean that we have cleared your arrears and the Credit Reference Agencies will be informed that your account is now up to date.

 

Please be advised this cannot be repeated. Arrears resulting from missed payments in the future will not be cleared in this way, and you will be subject to default charges as stated in your current terms and conditions.

 

If you do not currenty pay by Direct Debit, this facility offers you the peace of mind of knowing your bills are paid automatically by your due date. If you would like to take advantage of this facility, please contact us on the telephone number of the reverse of your statement.

 

Your Sincerely

 

Sally Moron (possibly Moran?) :o)

Head of Customer Service

 

****

 

Funnily, It was also accomponied by a statement that shows I am still £500 over my limit and that they are still applying late fees and over limit fees, despite that fact I pay on time.

 

I am not paying them any more. I can't afford to. They will be getting £5 each from me as of next month, as being able to eat has taken priority over this particular debt.

 

Any thoughts...what are they playing at ?

I might post the letter I am going to send them on here.....

[TETSUO]

Hello? Back in 06/07, I've have had loads of supportive/informative messages by now...where's everyone gone?

[TETSUO]

Ok, this is the letter I intend to send to MBNA / VIRGIN shortly. I would really appreciate any feedback at this point. If I mess this up now, there will be no going back. Cheers!

 

MBNA Europe

XXX

XXX

XXX

Blah blah

Date:

Dear Sir /Madam,

Ref : Card No: XXX XXX XXX XXX & XXX XXX XXX XXX

I am writing to advise you of a change to my circumstances which is going to prevent me making the minimum payments against these agreements.

I have recently separated from my long-term partner who has been contributing quite a substantial sum of money to my outgoings for the last 5 years. The sudden loss of this additional money has left me in a very unstable position financially, and I am currently seeking advice as to whether to pursue an IVA in regard of my creditors, or whether to consider bankruptcy, being as my situation is somewhat dire.

I am pre-empting your request to details my incomings / outgoings below (these do not include essentials, such as food, clothing, Petrol etc.)

In: Regularity: Value:

Employer Pay Monthly £blah

Total: £blah (net)

Out: Regularity Value: Remaining (appx):

Unsecured Loan 1 Monthly £blah £blah

Unsecured Loan 2 Monthly £blah £blah

Unsecured Loan 3 Monthly £blah £blah

Unsecured Loan 4 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 1 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 2 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 3 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 4 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 5 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Purchase 1 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Purchase 2 Monthly £blah £blah

Rent Monthly £blah Ongoing

Total: £blah

As you can see from the above, these outgoing exclude the minimum payments I have been making to MBNA and Virgin credit cards, totalling £300 per month. This, incidentally, is not reducing the balance at all. I am currently over the limit on both agreements. It is also worth mentioning that the 5 credit cards listed above, and the payments associated, also reflect the minimum payments required each month. I goes without saying that a situation where the amount going out of my account is greater than that coming in cannot be sustained any longer, without the additional income.

I want to avoid the situation where an IVA or Bankruptcy is initiated, but I am limited in my options going forward.

My ex-partner is providing me with a limited sum of money at the end of September by way of a contribution to the debt generated whilst we were together. I am inviting you, as my main creditor to enter into discussions, so that we can reach an amicable agreement to settle this debt. I will also be looking for you to clear my credit file of any adverse information, and for the debts to be indicated as “settled” on these reports.

I can confirm that I will receive £blah (CAG readers – this is equiv to 50% of the value of the debt)from my ex partner, and depending on how quickly we can resolve this matter, I am willing to agree a final settlement up to this amount. If we are unable to come to an agreement, then I will approach my other creditors with a similar offer.

I will also be requesting a ‘Subject Access Request’, and copies of my ‘Consumer Credit Agreement’ in separate correspondence. The latter being to ensure that your agreements are enforceable.

Please note: I have been advised to continue all correspondence in writing only, therefore, I will not be willing to discuss this by telephone at any point during this process.

I hope that we are able to move forward on this together, for both our benefits.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

Yours sincerely,

Mr TETSUO

 

Sooo, what do you think???

[citizenB]

Personally I would send them the CCA and SAR letters FIRST. Find out if they do in fact have a compliant agreement.

 

If they dont, then this puts you in a better position for bargaining.

 

I would not let them know that you are going to have a lump sum available at any point.

 

So.. send them the letter advising that you are unable to continue with the regular contractural payments, offer them what you can reasonably afford each month. With this include your Budget statement. You only have to provide them with a 'group creditor' figure you dont have to detail who your other creditors are. Just say Creditor A, B, C, D etc and alongside how much you are intending to pay those.

 

Then send off the CCA letter (including a £1.00 postal order), allowing the 12 + 2 days. You can of course skip this step and go for the jugular and just send the S.A.R. letter enclosing a £10.00 postal order and specifically requesting copies of any signed agreements, statements, terms and conditions etc. You have to allow 40 days for them to provide this information.

 

If they are unable to provide you with the a copy of the signed agreement then you could go in for the killer blow and offer as a goodwill gesture a mimimum Full & final settlement figure starting at say.. 10-15%. If they do have one then you now have the statements from the S.A.R. to enable you to make a claim for any and all of the charges/late payment fees.

 

Good luck.

[TETSUO]

The thing is that I intend to pay my other creditors their minimum / contractural payments. MBNA and VIRGIN are the biggest rocks around my neck, as I pay them so much, but the balance never goes down.

 

Am I getting into dodgy ground by only (not) paying MBNA their minimums?

 

I agree with what you say though. I will send them a letter indicating that I am unable to maintain payments any longer, and also request a CCA.

 

I don't want this to drag on for months/years like some seem to. They will hopefully not be able to produce an enforcable agreement, then I can make them an offer.

 

did you see the letter they sent me (above) seemed a bit odd i thought...

 

Thanks for you help

[citizenB]

Hi TETSUO,

 

The letter you received is (for MBNA) a polite way of reminding you that they have noticed the payment they received wasnt your normal blood letting amount. Should you do it again, then the heavy threatograms will start to be forthcoming.

 

Further to previous posts and your plan to offer a F&F. If you read round some other threads you will see that others had the same plan. MBNA and Capital one are more likely to say they will grab what you are offering as a PARTIAL settlement and they will then restructure your remaining balance. Whilst you are still breathing, they will be looking to collect.

 

Do you have PPI on the credit that you could cancel to reduce monthly payments, have you any charges you think you might be able to claw back ?. By sending the S.A.R letter you will have the statemetns to hand so you will be able to check.

 

It is a good idea to get shot of borrowing that has the hightest interest rates, but believe me, getting shot of MBNA is going to be hard work.

[TETSUO]

I did have PPI on Virgin, whch I don't recall ever asking for. I removed this in 2007. I also claimed my charges back in early 2007 from MBNA and Virgin, so I guess I could go down that route again.

 

I guess I am hoping that by sending and SAR, CCA and my "can't pay any more" letter, they will realise that they are better off settling with me, than dragging it out and forcing me down the CCCS, IVA or even Bankruptcy route.

 

Are they really stupid enough to try and get me to pay them off in full, when my outgoings are obviously higher than my incomings?

 

I've seen a thread on here somewherte where they offer to "settle", so I am hoping they are wise enough to do the same with me.

 

As for "partial settlements" and "re-structuring" the remaingin debt. As far as my incoming / outgoings is concerned, even without paying them anything, It still only leaves me £150 a month to live on. So, I don't know what else they'll think they can get out of me.

 

I guess time will tell...

[citizenB]

I do wish you good luck whichever route you intend to take. Please keep us updated.

[TETSUO]

Will do :o)

[macca160670]

Hi there,

 

My partner has a virgin credit card (MBNA) and recently I cancelled the ppi on his credit card, they claimed he agreed over the phone so I have written requesting a refund for the payments taken. They claim they tried to contact him by phone, again I've written asking them not to telephone but put anything in writing. Maybe you could try the reclaim route.

 

As for settlements, I know at one stage my boss asked his dad to settle some of his debts for him, his dad wrote to the credit card companies asking them to accept a reduced amount as final settlement as his son could not clear the debts, they accepted his offer, so perhaps if I was you I would try to do the same, if they know your coming into money they will simply try to screw every penny out of you. Would any member of your family do this for you, if you gave them the money??

 

I know from dealing wth Virgin that they are not interested in sob stories, I wrote on behalf of my partner advising of the struggle to pay they didnt even reply, I then sent another letter (template) from one of the websites requesting why the interest had rose from 1.2 to 2.2% per month and why payment dates kept being brought forward, I also requested what information they held against that account... argh now I get a reply saying they are looking into it!!

[hamish2008]

Ok, this is the letter I intend to send to MBNA / VIRGIN shortly. I would really appreciate any feedback at this point. If I mess this up now, there will be no going back. Cheers!

 

MBNA Europe

XXX

XXX

XXX

 

I am pre-empting your request to details my incomings / outgoings below (these do not include essentials, such as food, clothing, Petrol etc.)

 

In: Regularity: Value:

 

Employer Pay Monthly £blah

 

Total: £blah (net)

 

Out: Regularity Value: Remaining (appx):

 

Unsecured Loan 1 Monthly £blah £blah

Unsecured Loan 2 Monthly £blah £blah

Unsecured Loan 3 Monthly £blah £blah

Unsecured Loan 4 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 1 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 2 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 3 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 4 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Card 5 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Purchase 1 Monthly £blah £blah

Credit Purchase 2 Monthly £blah £blah

Rent Monthly £blah Ongoing

 

Total: £blah

 

 

 

Hi Tetsuo

 

I would definitely add your food and outgoings and priority debts and perhaps fill out the income/expenditure spreadsheet you can find on here. Priority debts being food, clothing, car, council tax, mortgage/rent etc THEN provide an amount to be divisible between your creditors. Remoember these are SECONDARY debts. The reason you pay so much interest (apart from the fact they are greedy bas*ards) is because they offset the risk of you not paying by charging you a premium. They borrow the monay at 5% and lend to you at 25% for example, a nice hefty profit and then they will insure themselves against the risk of you not paying. Make sure you can live on a monthly basis before telling them what you have. I'm not sure if you have to declare what you owe to other creditors either, personally I wouldn't but you could give them an indication of the total amount owed so they get an idea where they fit in the pecking order.

[TETSUO]

Hi there,

 

My partner has a virgin credit card (MBNA) and recently I cancelled the ppi on his credit card, they claimed he agreed over the phone so I have written requesting a refund for the payments taken. They claim they tried to contact him by phone, again I've written asking them not to telephone but put anything in writing. Maybe you could try the reclaim route.

 

As for settlements, I know at one stage my boss asked his dad to settle some of his debts for him, his dad wrote to the credit card companies asking them to accept a reduced amount as final settlement as his son could not clear the debts, they accepted his offer, so perhaps if I was you I would try to do the same, if they know your coming into money they will simply try to screw every penny out of you. Would any member of your family do this for you, if you gave them the money??

 

I know from dealing wth Virgin that they are not interested in sob stories, I wrote on behalf of my partner advising of the struggle to pay they didnt even reply, I then sent another letter (template) from one of the websites requesting why the interest had rose from 1.2 to 2.2% per month and why payment dates kept being brought forward, I also requested what information they held against that account... argh now I get a reply saying they are looking into it!!

 

had the same thing with them. They said I "agreed to PPI over the telephone". I didn't, and never take out PPI, so I know I haven't. They basically said on the phone that the call would not have been recorded, so this is more ammo I can use.

 

I am sending an SAR, will also mention the, and also request the CCA. The more strings I have to my bow, the more likely they might be to negotiate a settlement.

 

Do you know what sort of precentage they settled on in your friend's case?

 

(thanks for your input - much appreciated)

[macca160670]

They settled on approx half of what the debt was.

 

I think its fair to say if you don't ask you don't get. I would do this on behalf of my partner if I had any money but unfortunately I don't so all I can do is try to stop all the ppi he has on loans and credit cards and try to get them to reduce his interest rates!

 

I've always had 0% credit cards and short term loans and its only now that I'm trying to sort out my partners debts that I've realised that when these institutions say come to us if you get into financial difficultly what there really saying is look at all the money we can make out of them on charges, rates etc !! disgusting....

[TETSUO]

Hi Tetsuo

 

I would definitely add your food and outgoings and priority debts and perhaps fill out the income/expenditure spreadsheet you can find on here. Priority debts being food, clothing, car, council tax, mortgage/rent etc THEN provide an amount to be divisible between your creditors. Remoember these are SECONDARY debts. The reason you pay so much interest (apart from the fact they are greedy bas*ards) is because they offset the risk of you not paying by charging you a premium. They borrow the monay at 5% and lend to you at 25% for example, a nice hefty profit and then they will insure themselves against the risk of you not paying. Make sure you can live on a monthly basis before telling them what you have. I'm not sure if you have to declare what you owe to other creditors either, personally I wouldn't but you could give them an indication of the total amount owed so they get an idea where they fit in the pecking order.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts...

 

I can't find the income/expendature spreadsheet? Any idea wher eI can find it?

 

cheers,

 

Ian

[steven4064]

Hi tetsuo

 

I'm sorry if I have misunderstood, but is the scenario you describe in post #1 actually true?

[citizenB]

Thanks for your thoughts...

 

I can't find the income/expendature spreadsheet? Any idea wher eI can find it?

 

cheers,

 

Ian

 

 

Ian, this is the link to the budget planner. 1st post, scroll down past the letter templates and there is an excel spreadsheet that you will be linked to.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162353

[TETSUO]

Hi tetsuo

 

I'm sorry if I have misunderstood, but is the scenario you describe in post #1 actually true?

 

It's as honest as I can make it when there could be prying eyes of MBNA watching over us....

 

I have sent you a PVT message with some ommited info

 

cheers

[TETSUO]

Ian, this is the link to the budget planner. 1st post, scroll down past the letter templates and there is an excel spreadsheet that you will be linked to.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162353

 

Thanks again fro your help

 

Scales tipped!

[citizenB]

You are very welcome. Many thanks for the click