Signs facing the wrong way

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Here's chapter 3 but as previously mentioned, it is a draft:

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/trafficsigns2/trafficsignschapter3.pdf

 

Thanks. This is the relevant bit:

 

6.33 Signs should be erected parallel to the kerb,

facing the carriageway and sited at approximately

60 metre intervals. This will normally be achieved by

fixing the signs on every lamp column within the

restricted length of road. Where there are no lamp

columns or other suitable mounting points, posts will

need to be erected. Providing conspicuity is not

compromised, signs may be mounted at the back of

the footway on posts, walls or railings. This is likely

to be preferable where the footway is narrow. In

environmentally sensitive areas where the post is

sited at the back of the footway, consideration

should be given to painting it a similar colour to the

adjacent building (direction 41 allows a post to be

any single colour, including its natural colour).

 

While this is a draft, no doubt theref is a current version/equivalent which may say much the same thing.

[coot]

The signs further down the street (we didn't walk that way) were facing the correct way. I hope this doesn't jeopardise it but I would think not.

[coot]

OK, just to update you all. I got a Notice of Rejection letter yesterday so I now have to take this to PATAS. Do you have any other recommendations for me at this stage as I have never gone as far as this before?

 

Also, is it better to have a personal hearing or a postal hearing? I would rather do the postal hearing as it means I don't have to take time off work and also I'd be pretty nervous to be honest as I've never had to go to court (or similar) before. If however, it's generally accepted that I'd have a better chance at a personal hearing then I would do it.

 

Thanks.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I would always recommend personal hearing.

It is nothing to be nervous about. Nothing like a court at all. More of a chat in an office (once you get part the formal part).

Notionally it is in public in that members of the public can come in and listen but I have no idea if anyone ever does!

You can also request specific time/day slots.

[fbnts]

Just Subbing

[nero12]

OK, just to update you all. I got a Notice of Rejection letter yesterday so I now have to take this to PATAS. Do you have any other recommendations for me at this stage as I have never gone as far as this before?

 

Also, is it better to have a personal hearing or a postal hearing? I would rather do the postal hearing as it means I don't have to take time off work and also I'd be pretty nervous to be honest as I've never had to go to court (or similar) before. If however, it's generally accepted that I'd have a better chance at a personal hearing then I would do it.

 

Thanks.

Yes, personal hearings are the best .

 

You can AFAIK ask for the attendance of the ceo under section 6 of the road traffic parking adjudicator regulations unless that has been changed aswell.

 

This way it put more pressure on the LA.

[nero12]

Yes, personal hearings are the best .

 

You can AFAIK ask for the attendance of the ceo under section 6 of the road traffic parking adjudicator regulations unless that has been changed aswell.

 

This way it put more pressure on the LA.

The Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (South Lanarkshire Council) Regulations 2005

[green_and_mean]

The Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (South Lanarkshire Council) Regulations 2005

 

Is Shepherds Bush now in Scotland??? :grin:

[nero12]

Is Shepherds Bush now in Scotland??? :grin:

It was the first link I found to section 6 of the road traffic parking adjudicator regulations, LOL:D

[coot]

OK guys thanks again. I'll set up a personal hearing then. Any advice on what to do? It's just a case of resubmitting what I have already done in the first appeal to the council isn't it.

 

What's this bit about the CEO? Are you suggesting that I ask PATAS to bring along the CEO of Hammersmith and Fulham council? How will this benefit me?

[lamma]

CEO is the new name for parking attendants

Civil Enforcement Officer.

[coot]

Oh thanks. How will this help my appeal and put pressure on the LA?

[Seamartin147]

My car received a "CPN" from Apcoa for not paying and displaying. It was parked in a what looked like a parking area of a road. Opposite was a clearly marked P&D car park outside a railway station. There were no signs on the side of the road my car was parked. On the opposite side of the road there were double yellow lines and beyond that was the fenced boundary of the car park. On that fence were signs with wording along the lines of obeying to the parking rules.

It looked as though, if you parked in the designated area of the road it was free parking. If you parked on the solid yellow lines you get a ticket. If you parked in the carpark it was pay and display.

I sent photographs of the signs and lack of signs to Apcoa. They have replied to say that "we have considered your explanation and regret the penalty is upheld"

By chance, I have not told them who was driving, But I feel it was genuinely bad signage that caused "the driver" not to pay. Should I continue with the signage route or reply stating that they should contact the driver if they feel that the signs were correct?

Please help .. my wife is putting more pressure on me to pay than they are. It's the thought that we may have to pay more if we contest the ticket.

 

Many Thanks

[crem]

By chance, I have not told them who was driving, But I feel it was genuinely bad signage that caused "the driver" not to pay. Should I continue with the signage route or reply stating that they should contact the driver if they feel that the signs were correct?

Please help .. my wife is putting more pressure on me to pay than they are. It's the thought that we may have to pay more if we contest the ticket.

 

Many Thanks

 

If Apcoa are acting as a private parking co. on behalf of the private car park landlord, and not as an agent of the council (to enforce public road parking) then you should do nothing until you receive a letter from them addressed to the "Registered Keeper" (the details of whom they will have to have paid DVLA to obtain). Then you can reply with one of the letters from the stickiess area of the forum stating, "yes I'm the keeper, please write to the driver".

 

If you read through these many forums, you will see consistantly the advise is that you should never instigate the dialog with these companies, but only reply to a contact from them. (and then only once is advised with any other letters being ignored)

[Seamartin147]

Thank you,

Apcoa are working for First Great Western. I have read through a number of the forums but can't find anything that outlines any rules that have to be adheared to with regard to signage ie distance from parking space. The message from signs at this parking area are not clear enough as I managed to misinterpret them. I'm sure other drivers will face the same problem. Who can I go to, to get help in forcing Apcoa to rectify the problem. If it was a council owned carpark, I could go to a third party ombudsman but there does not seem to be any body to turn to?

[coot]

Oh thanks. How will this help my appeal and put pressure on the LA?

 

Back to my original subject....

 

Could somebody kindly let me know what benefit asking for the CEO to attend gives me?

 

Regards.. Karl

[Seamartin147]

Sorry Coot, didn't mean to push in.

[coot]

No probs, just bumping it up in case people missed my original post.

[green_and_mean]

Back to my original subject....

 

Could somebody kindly let me know what benefit asking for the CEO to attend gives me?

 

Regards.. Karl

 

None in my opinion.

[lamma]

Back to my original subject....

 

Could somebody kindly let me know what benefit asking for the CEO to attend gives me?

 

Regards.. Karl

You can raise questions. it is not unknown for CEOs to have dodgy notebook entries.... I was reading today of one CEO who was dishing out tickets because they thought the tickets had expired when they hadn't. they were adding hours and minutes on a calculator - in decimal !! they couldn't actually tell the time and yet had become employed as a CEO - so who knows what you would find.

And it keeps the CEO off the street for the day !

[coot]

Thanks again for the input.

Out of interest, is there a min or max length of time before you can get clamped/towed after receiving a pcn on a yellow line?

 

I only ask because in the pictures that they submitted you can see the tow truck in the background. Usually it's the CEO that takes the photos after he's issued the pcn so I am assuming the tow truck was there at the same time that i received the pcn.

[green_and_mean]

Thanks again for the input.

Out of interest, is there a min or max length of time before you can get clamped/towed after receiving a pcn on a yellow line?

 

I only ask because in the pictures that they submitted you can see the tow truck in the background. Usually it's the CEO that takes the photos after he's issued the pcn so I am assuming the tow truck was there at the same time that i received the pcn.

 

No, the CEO would probably be with the tow truck, after any applicable observation period he/she would issue the PCN then its immediately lifted.

[lamma]

Check out the contents of

 

DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT

TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004

THE SECRETARY OF STATE’S STATUTORY GUIDANCE TO LOCAL

AUTHORITIES ON THE CIVIL ENFORCEMENT OF PARKING

CONTRAVENTIONS

[green_and_mean]

Check out the contents of

 

DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT

TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004

THE SECRETARY OF STATE’S STATUTORY GUIDANCE TO LOCAL

AUTHORITIES ON THE CIVIL ENFORCEMENT OF PARKING

CONTRAVENTIONS

 

the relevant bit states...

 

Where a vehicle is causing a hazard or obstruction the enforcement authority should remove rather than immobilise. If the vehicle is parked where parking is prohibited (such as on double yellow lines), then the vehicle can be removed as soon as a PCN has been served.

[lamma]

on your decision or definition of relevant maybe.

there is PLENTY more on removal that that little snippet as well you know G&M. you are in No position to decide what is relevant only the OP is. you don't know all the facts but he does. I find your post at the very least misleading. Are you trying to help people or just get them to pay regardless ?

 

more of the guidance to follow. anyone with an interest is better off getting the original document and reading it.

get it here

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/tmaportal/tmafeatures/tmapart6/betterprkstatutoryguid.pdf

 

further selections (inter alia)

54. When a vehicle is parked where parking is permitted, authorities must not33

immobilise or remove in the first 30 minutes following the issuing of the PCN,

with the exception of ‘persistent evader’ vehicles (see paragraphs 65-66)

where the time limit is 15 minutes. When a vehicle has been immobilised, a

CEO must34 affix a notice to it. The regulations set out what that notice

must35 say. The immobilisation device may only be removed by or under the

direction of a person authorised to do so by the enforcement authority,

following payment of the release fee and the penalty charge.

55. Where a vehicle is causing a hazard or obstruction the enforcement authority

should remove rather than immobilise. If the vehicle is parked where parking

is prohibited (such as on double yellow lines), then the vehicle can be

removed as soon as a PCN has been served36.

56. If a driver returns to the vehicle whilst immobilisation or removal is taking

place, then unless they are a persistent evader, it is recommended that the

operation is halted, unless the clamp is secured or the vehicle has all its

wheels aboard the tow truck. If immobilisation or removal is halted the PCN

should still be enforced.

57. When a vehicle is immobilised and subsequently removed to the pound, the

driver does not have to pay the clamp release fee37.

Edited July 16, 2008 by lamma