Welcome Finance Investigation

[animal_lover]

Don't worry about me i'll be fine i've got through a hell of alot worse .

 

I'll probably leave the work thing and just sort out the wages that i'm owed and leave it at that as i don't feel strong enough to deal with a tribunal at the moment.

 

I think the letter is great i'll post it to them tomorrow and see what they say, i've also changed the Global letter to put 'in dispute' instead so i'll post that too.

 

See how they like that

 

Thanks for all your help yet again i really appreciate it

 

AL

[Sol]

Subbing

[postggj]

dipply

 

we are trying to get an answer from welcome ref these insurances and its obviouse we have hit a nerve

 

just a thought

 

we know welcome front load these insurances for max profit and pay the underwriter a fraction of the payment. thats if there is a third party and not welcome themselves (alledged )

 

how do we know these insurances are front loaded, the customer is charged to that effect by welcome, but i have yet to have proof to that.

 

i have allways believed these insurance policies are kept in house and direct group try to give it credability, unholy alliance comes to mind

 

welcome allways neglect to include this info in sar requests

 

the truth will come out

[Dipply75]

Interesting postggj. will have a dig about, I need to understand more about front loading etc.

 

If it was all done in house (allegedly), the direct group/welcome thing would be a very convincing paper smokescreen. Either way - each policy had to have been underwritten by someone, which there must be a papertrail for. If there is nothing to hide then why can't we get basic info from a simple ppi policy?

 

If they were not underwritten? Big trouble.

[pears23]

Hi there not sure if this of any help but I too am trying to reclaim PPI from welcome, just dug out all my paperwork including a leaflet on PPI which was given to me in 2005. the key facts of the policy are summarised & 2 insurance companies are mentiond: Direct Group Ltd & Norwich Union.

not sure if tis of any help or what it tells us?

[mcfadwmc]

i've been to court with welcome re: PPI and lost.

 

two of the issues were that the PPI agreements (which were supposedly original copies) had addresses on them which i didn't move to until three years after taking the loan out!! so i alleged that the policy documents did not exist making the policy void as it was impossible to make a claim without the documents which never received.

 

secondly, i SAR'd Direct Group who sent back saying they had no information on me at all, no policy numbers or anything. when i showed this to the judge, welcome produced an email string of a conversation between welcome and direct showing that they had trouble with locating my account and had written to me later in the claim (nothing received by me of course). very convenient i thought and this evidence was not submitted prior to the hearing.

 

i lost by the way purely because it said Optional on the agreement

[fergal71]

welcome need to be investigated by oft, just because form said optional does not make it optional,,,, when they say the loan will not be given without taking out the insurance ( this is not optional especially when you are vulnerable.... and lets face it if you were not vulnerable you would not be approaching welcome.... the reason you are there is because of a poor credit file.... CRA have a great deal to answer for... It is no wonder the entire financial system is in the state it is in.

[Dipply75]

Hi pears23, thankyou, helpful info as it seems that agreements up to around 2005 stated clearly Norwich Union on the agreements as the insurer - after that the wording changed to "a reputable insurer". My older agreement (2003) listed Norwich Union, my partners in 2006 was the vague reputable insurer. Can you tell me if this was just on the back of the agreement or did you have an actual 'key facts' document? I have read you are supposed to get these but have no idea when this started!

 

Hey mcfadwmc - firstly, hats off to you for taking them on. I take it you had one of those judges that would believe any crap put in front of them? I am so sorry you lost, from what I read it was a ridiculous decision. Fergal is right, the OFT and the FOS need to pull the finger out.

 

I can't believe there aren't enough complaints logged not to arouse any suspicions so far. I know I am due a refund but I would much rather see them properly investigated and see the truth come out.

[animal_lover]

Hi, Sorry not been on for a while BT cut me off and they don't even know why.

 

Anyway i've recieved a letter dated 6th Nov from Global saying Welcome have instructed them to start litigation the day after Welcome recieved a letter from me regarding the questions on the PPI.

Also i recieved a phone call from a company that claim to keep certain companies files upto date and they were ringing for Welcome asking to confirm my name, address and employment status. I can't remember the name of the company as she kind of said it under her breath. she asked me to confirm my details once i questioned who she was she went through my details and asked me to confirm it instead and then quickly hung up the phone. The number was witheld.

Global should of also recieved there letter on the 7th saying that i will not consider any offers for clearing the account until the disputes that are currently with FOS and ICO are resolved.

 

Do you think they will start litigation or are they just trying to scare me because of my complaint

 

AL

[pears23]

Hi pears23, thankyou, helpful info as it seems that agreements up to around 2005 stated clearly Norwich Union on the agreements as the insurer - after that the wording changed to "a reputable insurer". My older agreement (2003) listed Norwich Union, my partners in 2006 was the vague reputable insurer. Can you tell me if this was just on the back of the agreement or did you have an actual 'key facts' document? I have read you are supposed to get these but have no idea when this started!

 

Hey mcfadwmc - firstly, hats off to you for taking them on. I take it you had one of those judges that would believe any crap put in front of them? I am so sorry you lost, from what I read it was a ridiculous decision. Fergal is right, the OFT and the FOS need to pull the finger out.

 

I can't believe there aren't enough complaints logged not to arouse any suspicions so far. I know I am due a refund but I would much rather see them properly investigated and see the truth come out.

 

Loan was taken out july 2005 and this information is stated in a leaflet entitled "take the worry out of repaying your loan", a policy summary & key facts. hope this helps.

[Dipply75]

Hi Animal lover, thought you had got bored of us lol. Very strange that phone call....what was all that about? Can you post the Global letter on here? Folk on here are getting good at spotting companies standard threatograms as opposed to real threats.

 

There are some strange happenings going on to a few of us with the same type of complaints in against them...check out the recent posts on this link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/37780-welcome-finance-any-dealings-51.html

 

Think yours is connected too?

Edited November 13, 2008 by Dipply75
forgot to add the link - sigh

[Dipply75]

Oh pears23, (eyebrows raised!) I got all excited when I read your post (sad, I know lol)....is there anyway you could post a copy of leaflet on here for us to see?

 

I am dying to see what their version of a keyfacts leaflet looks like, it may be very useful indeed!

[postggj]

dipply

 

things are afoot

 

missed your link in post 211

 

i believe things are starting to get very interesting

[FormerWFSemployee]

Bt probably cut you of for not paying your bills animal lover!!!

[postggj]

nice to know welcome are looking in

postggj says hello again

looks like things are starting to get a bit hot for welcome

your dodgy dealings are slowly comming to the surface and you will have a lot of explaning to do

[Dipply75]

Hi formerwfsemployee

 

i know it was a while ago, but can you remember if Welcome took responsibility for the IPT levied on the single premium policies and paid it, or did you just pass the premium to the insurer and let them take care of that?

[postggj]

here today, gone tommorow

does not stay very long

me thinks a bit shy on answering questions

[Dipply75]

Or only pops in to throw the odd random insult lol

[animal_lover]

Bt probably cut you of for not paying your bills animal lover!!!

 

Actually that's not why as i wouldn't be on now would i, and like i said they don't know why it happened, they would of told me there not like Welcome who treat there customers like xxxx on a constant basis.

 

if you haven't got anything to say about the thread and instead post comments that make people feel small knowing that other people can read it then don't bother posting.

 

Dipply

 

As soon as i find the letter i'll post it. The thread is very interesting and yes it sounds alot like the things there doing to me so it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

I haven't had any replies to the letters i sent to Welcome and Global so who knows maybe i might get a visit next

 

AL

[martin2006]

Hi guys,

 

whats the big problem with welcome?

 

Is it the add-on insurances or more?

[Dipply75]

Hi Martin2006

 

They are experts at taking advantage of people, for huge profit. When you visit a branch everything is done in a tiny private room, all verbally, with high pressure selling techniques, lies and even forgery.

 

No application forms are filled in, you just have a 'chat' where they seem all concerned, lovely people. Welcome know that when someone approaches them, they need the money and this is where folk are really taken advantage of - me included. This chat is to figure out how desperate/vulnerable you are. They new the tax credits messed up my claim and I was desperate for money to pay childcare - she then knew she could get away with murder with me. tactics include:

 

Taking all your details verbally - they then go into another room and enter all your details into the system. Many have discovered total lies were entered to approve huge borrowing they would not have got.

 

No application forms, so no proof.

 

When the salesperson returns with the agreement already filled in or completes it in front of you, the cheque is placed on the table in front of you. They only tell you how much you can borrow and what your monthly payment is and focus on the affordability of that payment. Unless you know ask nothing else will be explained to you.

 

If you DO ask there are various tactics - 'you won't get money anywhere else, the rate is so high because of the risk (65%??), the system decides the figures nothing I can do, if you don't miss payments we can re-negotiate a cheaper deal later in the loan, just phone me (thats a cracker) - all while holding the cheque in front of your face.

 

The agreement, which has not been discussed at all, is slid across the desk and you are asked to sign 'here and here' - while they still hold the top of it (in my case she actually covered all the figures at the top with her hand as well)

 

If you spot the PPI added you are told 'no ppi, no loan', it is company policy etc, again while holding that cheque in front of you. No health related questions, nothing about paying interest on the premium, no discussion at all except 'sign here'.

 

Once you have signed? they will mark your credit file, even if yo uhaven't missed a payment, which keeps you going back to them. Miss a payment (even by a few days) and there are letters and calls, charging you for each. Mysterious charges are levied, sometimes hundreds of pounds. They will visit your house over and over and charge you each time - knowing people think they have no choice in this "you signed a contract, thats it" crap.

 

And the PPI - the high premiums are taken, but no-one can every find any trace of an actual policy being opened anywhere, underwritten by anyone. They even refuse to tell you who your insurer apparently is! Hmmm, suspicious

 

They cannot wait to get you to re-finance and arrears are the biggest doorway to that.

 

Prime example - I knew of one couple, in their late 60's, who had unsecured borrowing and owed about £8-10K. Illness struck, got into arrears and they went to the branch to ask for help. They were warned they could be made bankrupt, lose their home, not much could be done except re-financing the loan which would have to be secured. This would require PPI, every other type of insurance welcome sold 'for protection', fees for the arranging the security blah blah. They were advised basically that this was their only option and by the time they left they had borrowed £26000. By the time they will have paid it off in about 15 years, they will have paid over £75000 for an £8-10K debt. Probably paying that for the rest of their days. I still feel sick every time I think about that.

 

I have always worried about that couple and hope they managed to fight that and get away from them.....but that is a PRIME example - not a one off.

 

Sorry for the novel, but they really get me going

Edited November 14, 2008 by Dipply75
more disgusted ranting!

[postggj]

well put dipply

i would have been less diplomatic and got cagbotted

[animal_lover]

Yep that's what happened to me, well put Dipply

 

Recieved letter from Welcome today saying there doing an investigation into the points i have raised and will contact me as soon as they conclude it.

Usually within 4 weeks - probably need that time to think up new excuses as i don't see why they need to investigate it they just need to answer it.

 

AL

[Dipply75]

Yup:D Investigate what exactly lol...they are simple enough questions asking for basic facts about your insurance policy and their membership to the FLA.

 

Maybe its all locked in that big filing cabinet called "stuff no-one will ever know to ask"?

 

Well, since my old agreement listed Norwich Union as the insurer - letter going off to them to complain about my policy, their involvement with the likes of Welcome, the blatant abuse going on in NU's name that they should be aware of and that they should reconsider authorising them in future etc.

 

Lets see what response that brings

[animal_lover]

Yep it certainly will be interesting.

 

Keep us posted

 

AL