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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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very unusual county court claim - please help!


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Not sure if this is the right part of the forum or if anyone can help - but here goes???

 

A county court claim form has been sent in my name, to a former workplace I have left 4 years ago. This follows a letter, from my brother, again sent to the former workplace and phone calls saying he was a long lost relative and wanted to know how my baby was??

 

The claim is for £1500 after I alledgedly "stole" a car belonging to him. He tried to claim this event happened around September 2002, at the time the police did not pusue the matter as there was no evidence. They did not even question me at the time or since. Since then he has been in prison twice.

 

The claim form states that he is claiming for the value of the car £1500, following "theft". Details on disputing the claim etc have been sent with the form. The form has court stamps on it, however the one with the date has been crossed out in pen, date changed, and is illegable. The postmark is May 30th. I have started to read a little on here and elsewhere on CC action / information, however am not sure where to turn??

 

Is it true that even though this has been sent to an address clearly not mine, action can still continue (as a side issue my brother knows our mother would pass on letters). Also is it possible to respond without giving my address (due to concerns of harrasment)?

 

Also can this go to court if he does not produce any proof to back the claim - no police action, no proof of purchase, no proof of amount being correct, he also had no driving license / insurance at the time he alledgedly had the car stolen? Would Statute barred rules apply beyond September?

 

Finally one big question, what does "contesting the jurisdiction" mean?

 

Sorry it's a bit information overload and if this is not the right forum, but with a young family to support this is just a bit of a worry.

 

Many thanks for reading

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Don't Panic.

 

Don't worry about contesting the jurisdiction - that's rather technical and doesn't apply.

 

There are a number of rules governing service of proceedings but as you've now got the form you can deal with it. The basic rule is that he who asserts must prove...

 

You need to speak to the court and confirm the issue date and to file ASAP an acknowledgment of service and a defence. The easiest way to write a defence is to go through the claim form and to respond, in a separately numbered paragraph t every allegation made. Incidentally the fact that no criminal proceedings were brought has no particular relevance.

 

Its' probably worth getting a Solicitor to have a look at it, some CAB's have sessions manned by Solicitors. Check with your local CAB

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Contesting the jurisdiction means that you think it should be heard in a different level of court - so not relevant to what you are dealing with.

 

I presume you have not seen your brother for a while. And don't want to. Has he done this out of financial greed or because he is trying to cause you trouble?

 

It is a difficult one. My first thought is to send back the claim saying that you are not known at the address, but then you could end up with a default judgement. If you defend it you will need to supply an address and will possibly have to attend court. Yes it would be statute barred in Sept but the court claim has been issued in time so that is not going to help.

 

Maybe - and I am not sure how this would work - you could send back the defence using a c/o address and explain the situation. I would think that to make a claim for restitution following theft he would at the very least need a crime number.

 

Probably not much help, but hopefully someone else will have more ideas.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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thanks for the replies,

 

I think this is greed and "wanting to get at me" sadly.

 

Am not sure which appraoch to take. My former work are willing to send the letter back, saying that I have not worked there for 4 years. Also how would the court know whether or not the letter has been received? Or is it case that this does not matter.

 

Am more than willing to defend the claim to, as I cannot see what proof there is to the claim.

 

Am also a bit dismayed at how easy it is to put someone through the CC system with no proof.

 

The legal advice seems a good idea, but I cannot afford this until the 15th June, even then it is ans expense my young family does not need.

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Hi everyone,

 

just thought would update on progress so far. The claim is genuine and I have the dates for response and defence.

 

I have sent off the acknowledgement of service. Not quite sure in a defence, as all the claimant has put in the details of claim section is "recovery of money to the value of £1500 for the theft and sale of a motor car belonging to the claimant" - this is all that is on the form.

 

One thought I had in terms of defence;

 

If the car was "stolen", surely county court is meant to be a form of last resort in recovering money. Therefore surely the court can go back to claimant and say why have you not claimed on your car insurance to get the money back? The answer to this is the claimant was driving the car uninsured and without a driving licence at the time. Would this key point have an influence on any defence I can write??

 

In terms of seeking advice, this site seems to be the only place most people can turn to. The CAB said they were unwilling and unable to advise and a solicitor would cost £200 + VAT per hour. Although am exploring the opportunity to claim legal aid to help, although I beleive my level of income is borderline for this.

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Can I ask what actually happened to the car? I am just interested, and it may be relevant to any defence we manage to come up with.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Solicitors - You should be able to see a fee earner in a high street practice for less than £200 plus vat - that sort of money would get you an equity partner...

 

The fact that claimant may or not have been able to claim on his insurance insofar as the issue of proceedings is concerned has no relevance. It is relevant if he wins when the court has to assess the value of his claim. At this point it is neither here nor there. The fact that the car in question was not insured has no relevance, neither does the lack of car insurance.

 

That to one side. A bit of detail would be helpful - what is the car, who owned it - not who was the registered keeper but who bought it and paid for it.

 

In terms of how to plead a defence:-

Plead it in response to the allegation "It is averred that the particulars claim give rise to any cause of action further and in any event it is denied that the Defendant has at any time stolen or otherwise unlawfully appropriated any right or interest in any motor vehicle belonging to the claimant. It is therefore denied that the Defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all"

 

Job done - that defence meets the allegation - it is however a method of pleading that the court's aren't too keen on but as a Litigant in Person if you were to do it you would get away with it.

 

Technically the claim and defence need explaining - you can either produce a request for further and better particulars of the claim where you ask your brother to specify:- Precise details of the vehicle, when/how he purchased it, when/how he alleges that you stole it

 

Technically you can't issue proceedings in the county court for theft - there is no civil wrong of theft - your brother should have brought proceedings in a thing called the tort of "conversion" [a tort is a civil wrong] - you could therefore apply to strike out his claim - the problem with that is that you have to pay a fee and it is likely that the court would let him amend his claim - that is re-phrase it into conversion. So you're probably better off not wasting the £60 fee on an N244 and letting the case take its' course.

 

So I would file the defence and at the same time send a request for further and better particulars. If you are concerned that your brother may find your address - you can either apply to the the court on an N244 for an order not to disclose the address, and pay a fee, or alternatively obtain a PO Box and use that as your address

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If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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I think that there is a bit of confusion over Theft, Police and crime.

 

Theft is a criminal offence S1 Theft Act 1968 - appropriate property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it. Is a criminal offence dealt with exclusively in the criminal courts - prosecution must prove on the criminal standard of proof (Certain so that you are sure - beyond reasonable doubt - 99%) that the offence was committed. Cases are dealt with in the Magistrates and Crown Court

 

The County Court on the other hand deals with civil matters. In a civil case the act complained of must, usually, be proved on the civil standard of proof (balance of probabilities - more likely than not - 51%).

 

The Civil standard is much lower than the criminal standard - so conduct which cannot be proven on the criminal standard may, in certain cases, be proven on the civil standard because the standard of proof is less.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Hi

 

many thanks for all the help so far, it's appreciated. Advise wise i tried a solicitors that deal with legal aid. However they said that due to the amount of the claim (£1500) it would be best to defend this myself.

 

I have picked up a form n244 -when completing this how do I get across the points made above?

 

Also, to give a bit more detail of what happened;

 

Back in 2002 my brother and mother asked if I could travel to pick up my brothers' car and look after it for a short time. My brother was about to be on trial, but said that he was not guilty and he would be able to collect the car back in a week. I went up and collected the car, my brother assured me that at the time the car had an MOT, I have fully comp'+ business insurance - therefore can drive any car with permission. I said to them that I would look after the car for a week, but was unable to do so beyond that time.

 

I drove the car back to whre I was living at the time. This was bad as throughout the journey the roof was leaking, a window was broken and I was unhappy with condition of the brakes. I placed a week worth of parking vouchers on the car.

 

After a week, my brother was sent to trial and on the day of verdict, broke all contact with my mother and was sent to prison for 3 years with no further communication.

After a time the car was towed away by persons unknown.

 

Have sent a letter asking my brother to outline the particulars of the claim so I can write a defence, but because he has not put any detail, still not sure what to write. As a sideline our mother has said she is happy to be a witness for me if required.

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I think I would submit a defence explaining what actually happened more or less as you have above. You were not responsible for the car, and it sounds very unlikely that it was worth £1500. I presume you did not report its disappearance as you were probably quite pleased it had gone.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Goldlady is right - basically explain what happened. Do it in a logical way in numbered paragraphs ending with a paragraph saying "It is averred that the particulars claim give rise to any cause of action further and in any event it is denied that the Defendant has at any time stolen or otherwise unlawfully appropriated any right or interest in any motor vehicle belonging to the claimant. It is therefore denied that the Defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all"

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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