Help! - AMEX No CCA and they've started court action. **DISCONTINUED**

[Cunning Plan]

I've been browsing the site for many months and it has allowed me to fight a few battles with a couple of card companies. Battles won but not yet the war!

 

So to my post and another battle that is hotting up.

 

I CCA'd Brachers regards a debt they are dealing with for AMEX. They returned two application forms and the covering letter said they where enclosing the information I had requested. The T&C's were missing and certainly no sign of any agreement.

 

I was waiting for the 30 days to expire then was ready to send the next letter regards compliance. Instead of me writing to them they have written to me via Maidstone Court

 

They are looking to take me for £8K of which around £1K is their referal fee.

 

So my questions:

 

Is my defence simply a lack of agreement?

 

Referal fee excessive and not within guidelines.

 

The figure also includes unlawful charges.

 

How do I transfer this to my local court? I know Maidstone is a wonderful place but its not too convenient for me to get to.

 

 

I need to bounce this paperwork back to the court by next Friday 16th. To get the time for response extended to 28 days.

 

Your advice please fellow CAG'ers

 

CP

[42man]

Can you scan and post up what they sent (missing out the personal details)

[creditcardmug]

Yes as 42man says we need at least to see the particulars of claim, to be able to help.

Also can you confirm this is a Credit Card

[Cunning Plan]

Hi 42man & creditcardmug,

 

This is a credit card and is quoted as such in the claim. I was until Feb 2008 paying £10 per month until they failed to produce a CCA.

 

I will scan the paperwork once my replacement scanner arrives but for now here are the deatils of the claim. Copied word for word.

 

_____________________

The particulars of Claim:

 

Money due for Creditcard services supplied (account number) to and at the Defendant's request as detailed in monthly statements rendered culminating 25 May 2007

 

Sum due at 25 May 2007

 

7253.74

Add file referral charge 1160.60

Less credit 81.00

 

Statutory Interest from

25 May 2007 to date at 8% per annum 336 x 1.84 per day currently 616.20

 

Add subsequent debits 0.00

 

The Claimant claims 8949.54

 

Plus continuing Statutory Interest at 1.84 per day until Judgement or sooner payment to section 69 of the County

_____________________

 

Thats how the claim ends on 'County'

 

Amount claimed including court fee and solicitor's costs 9239.54

 

 

Hope this helps

 

CP

[creditcardmug]

When you file your defence it should get automatically transfered to your local court

Remember you only have 14 days to acknowledge service.

You need to send claimant a request for info under the CPR asap, this will help with preparing your defence (if they bother to comply, most don't).

Otherwise you will have to file a holding defence based on vague particulars of claim/no reply to CPR.

 

Did they send you a Default Notice if so scan this up as well

[gh2008]

Get this off to the claimant ASAP - send via SD

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

PART 18 REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

If they are the OC then you can remove the bits that don't apply

[Cunning Plan]

Thanks GH

 

I'd found a similar request elswhere on this site. Its been sent and I'll just wait and see if they respond.

 

I will post their recent letters asap. Having scanner problems at the moment. Typical if it can go wrong it will at the worst possible time.

 

In the meantime is there anything else I should be looking to do regards my defence?

 

CP

[gh2008]

You need a very clear timeline of the account and very clear for the recent activity.

Include when opened, major events default notice(s) etc.

 

You need to scan recent docs from them, any default notice(s) and the claim form.

 

The defence, if they fail to send anything in response to the CCA request, is actually quite straightforward so don't worry.

Once all the info is in the thread you'll be given/helped with a defence to modify to suit your exact situation. (hence why all the info is needed)

 

Hunt down some recent defences, there have been a few recent success stories with similar situations. The defences on there will give you a very good idea of what is to come

 

Good luck

gh

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Again,

 

Scanner now fixed so here I go...

 

Advice required to build my defence.

 

 

AMEX card account opened 1997

Account upgraded from Greencard to Goldcard 2002

Account passed to RMA in March 2006.

Account passed to AIC October 2006.

Account passed to Brachers June 2007. They sent a letter including the balance and collection costs and a copy of terms and conditions from 2003! No signatures names or address etc.

During this time I was paying token amount each month.

 

February 2008 ask Brachers to prove they have CCA and associated paperwork and therefore rights.

 

Response and forms here:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk276/CunningPlan2008/App1.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk276/CunningPlan2008/App2.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk276/CunningPlan2008/App3.jpg

 

So account in dispute but they then send this.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk276/CunningPlan2008/Arr1.jpg

 

I'm waiting for the 12+2+30 days to expire. Then I will to send off the template letter to smack their wrists.

BUT instead they jump the gun with this:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk276/CunningPlan2008/Arr2.jpg

 

Then the court papers arrive. As previously quoted:

 

The particulars of Claim:

 

Money due for Creditcard services supplied (account number) to and at the Defendant's request as detailed in monthly statements rendered culminating 25 May 2007

 

Sum due at 25 May 2007

 

7253.74

Add file referral charge 1160.60

Less credit 81.00

 

Statutory Interest from

25 May 2007 to date at 8% per annum 336 x 1.84 per day currently 616.20

 

Add subsequent debits 0.00

 

The Claimant claims 8949.54

 

Plus continuing Statutory Interest at 1.84 per day until Judgement or sooner payment to section 69 of the County

_____________________

 

Thats how the claim ends on 'County'

 

Amount claimed including court fee and solicitor's costs 9239.54

 

_____________________

 

The less credit figure (£80) is the £10 per month paid since Brachers took over the file. The £1 is, I'm guessing, my payment for the CCA request that they have tagged onto the credit column grand total £81

 

Your advice please and do you need anymore information.

 

CP

[gh2008]

Have you ever received a Default Notice?

[Cunning Plan]

Hi GH,

 

Certainly not had a default notice in the last 12 months. I can't remember ever getting one before that either. I'll have to delve into my files to see if I'm mistaken. Will get back to you on this one.

 

How important a piece of paper is a default notice in this case?

 

CP

[gh2008]

well, without a compliant default notice issued to you they are not allowed to terminate the account or demand payment or seek enforcement

so you could say it was sort of important

[Cunning Plan]

Hi again,

 

I have checked through my paperwork and can only find a 'Notice of Cancellation' from AMEX. The account was then passed to AIC.

 

I sent my CPR request to AMEX, copy to Brachers, and today have received a letter from AMEX asking me to fill in a form and send ID to comply with my Subject Access Request under Data Protection and £10 payment.

Am I correct in thinking they are mistaken and delaying here? Under CPR don't they have to supply what I have requested?

 

CP

[gh2008]

Yes, you are correct and they are frustrating your attempts to compile a proper defence and this will be brought to the attention of the Judge.

 

You could write back and inform them that you are not making a SAR, but a CPR Part18 request for further information

[Cunning Plan]

I'll send another copy of the request and point out the error of their ways.

 

I'll scan the 'Notice of Cancellation' letter in a while to add to the collection.

 

CP

[Cunning Plan]

Quick Update:

 

I sent a second letter asking for the information under Civil Procedure Rules to AMEX on Thursday, also pointing out the error in their first reply.

Nothing back as yet (Monday) so perhaps now the penny has dropped with them that I'm serious about this.

 

Meanwhile on Saturday a letter from Brachers saying thanks for the request to them and as I've asked AMEX already for the info they have forwarded the necessary information and documentation to our client (AMEX), and they shall be in contact with me directly.

 

The letter ends 'we can confirm we have placed our file in abeyance for a temporary period of 10 days from the date of this letter'

 

Which, to me, seems a pointless thing to write as court proceedings are under way. So what are they 'holding' ?

 

Will sit tight for the next few days, see what appears from AMEX. Then will update the thread and ask for assistance for my defence.

 

CP

Edited May 19, 2008 by Cunning Plan

[nicklea]

Just make sure that you do file your defence within the proper timescale or they can get judgement by default regardless of how good your defence is.

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Nicklea,

 

Thanks for the advice I'm certainly not going to miss the deadline. I'm waiting until Friday to see if they send any of the information requested. Depending on what happens I'll then start compiling my defence . That will give me four days before I need to send it off.

 

CP

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Again,

 

An update:

 

Nothing at all from AMEX, but today received another letter from Brachers.

 

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk276/CunningPlan2008/amex006.jpg

 

Note that Brachers obviously didn't read the copy I sent them of my CPR request to AMEX. It appears AMEX have told them what I was asking for.

 

Can anyone explain the last two paragraphs?

 

Phrases like 'forward to you as soon as possible'

Surely under CPR's they should be with me within 12 days of my request?

 

'Any further documentation or information you require shall be provided at the appropriate point during proceedings, if the court makes an Order for disclosure'

Again shouldn't this be sent within the 12 days?

 

Advice and comments please.

 

CP

[nicklea]

No it doesn't have to be within 12 days. You can request it, but they can also come back and say they need more time or that it isn't reasonably necessary to prepare your case, or it's too expensive to get etc etc.

 

If they don't provide anything by the date you need it you'll need to put in a holding defence that basically says they haven't replied to your cpr 18 request and requesting that they do comply and you will provide a fuller defence after that date. See posts by pt2537 - he's really good at his job (or is it a hobby at the moment? - or perhaps a vocation)

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Nicklea,

 

Thanks for the response. I've read a number of posts by pt2537 and others and they have given me confidence to fight my corner on this one.

 

I'll wait it out until this weekend to see if AMEX respond directly. So far they haven't done a thing. It's just been Brachers firing the bullets for them. Their aim has been somewhat off though. It's clear from their letter today they didn't read my earlier correspondence. So I'll let them keep digging a hole for themselves.

 

CP

[horw]

Hi Cunning Plan, I am starting down this road now, your thread seems to just stop? how did you get on?

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Horw,

 

This thread is very much alive. I'm counting down the days before I write my defence. Deadline is 2nd June. I'm waiting for information from AMEX under the Civil Procedure Rules. If it arrives before the deadline my defence will need to be modified accordingly.

 

CP

[horw]

It all seems very complicated, did you find it hard to follow all the rules etc, I am going to do my claim on line after I send a letter to HFO for their info.(I cant even remember all the letter names etc so its a bit daunting)

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Horw,

 

I suggest you start your own thread. Then post as much information as you have, leaving out personal details. These companies rely on people not seeking advice and getting judgements by defualt.

You've come to the right place and anything you don't understand just add this to your post.

 

Good Luck.

 

CP