A family member owes my mum over 13k. Can we get it back?

[sean28]

Hi not used this site since I sued Barclays and Won, so I knew this was the place to come for some good sound advice.

My mum lent her niece and her then husband over 13k over a three-year period and has been trying to get it back with out any joy. It first started when they came in to difficulty with money and needed to sell the house to pay other debtors. My mum foolishly lent them all her savings of 8k. Over the next year month’s etc. they kept coming back for more after seeing how easy they got the first lot, mum even borrowed on her credit card to give them a further £1400. They even persuaded mum to take out a loan for 5k to help with the selling of the house on the under standing it would be paid in full after the sale. Since she and her husband have now parted and the house sold she still owes mum a lot of money, and false promises that it will be sorted. Any profut has been placed into her son’s account.

Since the loan was taken out she started to pay the £154 monthly payments but they have now stopped as well and mum is paying that as well, and working all hours to make ends meet.

In her mind mum has excepted that she will never get her savings back but needs the loan and credit card settled. I’m thinking of starting legal proceedings against her through the small claims court but would like some advice on how likely we our of getting our money back.

Mum has some signed pieces of paper of how much was borrowed and the running total of payments back (which aren’t many) but is this enough too take to court.

One piece of key evidence is a headed letter from C&G building society addressed to them but written to mum saying that they needed£2700 to help secure a loan against the house of £43k, this is when the loan was taken out. One look at the letter and you could see they had typed the middle part and placed it over an original and photo copied it. Surely this is obtaining money through deception.

Should I start by sending a LBA and 14 days after a final letter and waiting the 28 days and then submitting court action? Do I take court action against them both as even though the niece signed the pieces of paper his name was on the forged C&G leeter?

We await some advice.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hi

 

I'm sure you get advice soon, however is it my belief that for a small claim a the maximum of £5000, I could be wrong, I expect that someone will advise soon.

 

Andy

[slick132]

Hi Sean,

 

The 1st question I would ask is, do the niece and her ex-husband have money or assets against which your mother could claim. A house with some equity for example.

 

If they have no assets, your mother could sue them and win Judgement for the full amount, but never see a penny of it.

 

But, perhaps if the niece and ex see that your mother has someone who knows how to deal with this matter (you or a solicitor), they make take seriously her demand for repayment.

 

You could also ask them to take out their own loan to repay the one which your mother is paying £154 a month for.

 

Have you contacted a local solicitor and asked for a free initial consultation. This would give you a chance to show what papers you have and you may get good guidance as to the likelyhood of getting further with this horrid mess.

 

Would the neice's parents feel any moral obligation to make good, or at least help with, the losses which your mother has suffered.

[JonCris]

As this is a family member & before commenting can you give some indication as to how far your mother is willing to go in attempting to get her money back...........for example would she be happy for the police to become involved

[sean28]

Thnaks everyone for the feed back and advice. She and her husband both live in rented accomadation and as far as I know have no real assest. Even just to see them in court would be good as it stands now mum is unlikely to get her money back so name and shame me be sweet justise. If a court did award in full can we then go for an attachment order against their wages?

 

As for the Police it is a route we are thinking of any.

 

As for her parents (mum's sister) she owes them 21k. but it doesn't stop there. She owes a friend 5k, my brother 3k500, any probably many more.

 

I knew the small court was only up to 5000, but at the end of the day if mum gets the loan and card paid that would be great.

 

Solicitors and C A B have all said much the same about taking her to the small courts but the reality of actually get anything back is small.

 

Once again thank you all for the advice I'll keep you posted. As I'm also help my brother sue her for his first.

 

Sean28

[Wizard of ID]

It doesn't sound as though you actually have much record of your mum handing the money over to your cousin. Your cousin of course would simply deny everything in court. Unless you have some document or letter written by your cousin agreeing to accept the loan, or a witness who can testify on your mum's behalf, I'd say you would be unlikely to win.

 

You mentioned that your mum has a record of your cousin making payments. Is this record something your cousin could deny? How were these payments made? Cash, card or cheque? To your mum or to the loan company? I'm asking because people don't normally pay other people's debts for them. If the payments were made by card of cheque, that could be an angle that you could use as evidence that your cousin had borrowed and agreed to pay back.

 

Even so, I'd say it's still a weak case. Your cousin could claim that she was helping your mum out of the kindness of her heart.

 

As for witnesses, how willing would your other family members be to testify against your cousin? If you sued your cousin and were able to produce lots of witnesses saying that she'd treated them the same way, that could be strong evidence. You also mentioned a friend (should that be "ex friend"?) of your cousin's that she ripped off. Betrayed friends are often quite eager to get one back, so there's a good chance he would be willing to testify. Can you can track him down and ask him to be a witness?

 

If the letter is clearly fraudulent, you can refer that to the police. If a conviction results, that could strengthen your case for a subsequent law suit.

 

Other than that, I can only suggest having a solicitor write them a letter, just as a bluff. The solicitor will charge for this service, but most people get scared when they receive solicitor's letters. It might, perhaps, make your cousin take you more seriously.

 

Sorry I can't be more upbeat, but I think your cousin does have the upper hand here. In civil cases, the burden of proof is lower than it is in criminal cases, but it still rests on you.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Wizard of ID

[Wizard of ID]

My wife just suggested something else, which could be worth trying. Would it be possible to arrange a meeting between your Mum and your cousin (and you might try to involve the other family members as well for extra pressure) in which you could all discuss your cousin's money problems with her. Keep it friendly and pragmatic. Your official line will be that your Mum just wants to get things sorted out for the sake of the family, and that your Mum might even be consider (note: that's not "give") another loan if that'll help your cousin resolve her financial problems and start paying people back.

 

You want your cousin to think that she can still string your Mum along, maybe even get a little more money out of her. As a part of your meeting, you require your cousin to sign an acknowledgement that she's borrowed all this money and agreed to pay it back.

 

If you can get that, you've probably got the evidence you need to sue her. Underhand? Absolutely, it is! Do you care? Well, I guess you'll have to answer that one yourself. But in your position, I wouldn't.

 

Of course, if your cousin does act on that and make further payments, your Mum HAS to write a receipt, recording the balance remaining and keep a copy for herself. Keep everythig formal from now on. You need a paper trail.

[sean28]

Thanks you your frank and honest comments, that's what I like about this site, you get every possible angle.

 

Well I thought all along that she would have the upper hand as mum was too trusting to get all the money witnessed or signed for. She has got her to sign on the same piece of paper where mum takes the balance from so that may help. If mum does nothing she'll get nothing so if she sues and gets nothing at least she has dragged her name through the courts and may help to warn others.

I only found out today that my elder brother (not wiser though) has also lent her £3000 last Oct and only had 100 back. I'm now going to help him sue as well, as he has a written agreement and signed. I may wait a few weeks until I can secure her trust on mums loan.

 

As for the Police and splitting the family, I think the damage is already done. Where not a close family like that but mum is still close to her sister but she has had a gut full as well. I hope the Police at least investigate as this will show we mean business.

 

I like your train of thought on the underhand way of getting her to sign an agreement to acknowledge the amount she owes, nice plan, I'll let you know the result. I might even not go to the Police yet, I'll use it as a bargining tool for her to sign.

 

Thank you

Sean28