Egg credit card agreement terminated

[diddydicky]

we are not telling them anything they don't know already

[ftd]

Would I be right in thinking, At worst, any outstanding debt still exisits, but Egg no longer has the right to charge interest on this balance?

 

FTD

[Peterbard]

all of it and none of it

 

the creditor does NOT need anything in the contract or the CCA to prevent him from terminating the contract he (as can the debtor) can simply stick two fingers up at any time and say this contract is terminated however if it is not a lawful termination- then he has not in fact terminated he has merely stated his intent not to continue to perform his obligations

 

the ONLY way his unlawful attempt to terminate can result in termination is if the inured (performing ) party agrees to his unlawful act

 

My disagreement was with your suggestion that he could not UNLAWFULLY terminate.

 

HI

 

So you are sying that the temination made under section98 is not a lawful termination?

 

Yes i know section 98 is fixed term but it applies see my earlier piece and the oft guidlines.

 

There doesnt need to be an injured party for there to be a termination of the agreement, it doesnt need to be after a breach of the act.

 

Termination does not hafe to be ablsolute, see section 87 (1d)

 

Pleas explain how he can unlawfuly terminate

 

A defective default notice would not be an unlawful termination it would just be a invalid default note the termination wold be lawfful under the provisions of secction 98.

Peter Lots cf judicial comment to support this

[blackntan]

I have received the following from Egg with reference to my complaint.

 

"Where you state your agreement was terminated on 6 March 2008, this was the case but the agreement was not terminated in the sense you believe it was."

 

They then go on to talk a lot of nonsense about how termination does not mean termination.

 

How do they expect people to interpret official correspondence to mean anything other than what it actually says?

 

The dictionary definition of "terminated" is

 

1. To set a term or limit to; to form the extreme point or side of; to bound; to limit; as, to terminate a surface by a line. [1913 Webster] 2. To put an end to; to make to cease; as, to terminate an effort, or a controversy. [1913 Webster]

3. Hence, to put the finishing touch to; to bring to completion; to perfect. [1913 Webster]

 

 

Perhaps Egg have a dictionary all of their own. It might be an idea to supply one to anyone signing an agreement with them.

[basa48]

I have received the following from Egg with reference to my complaint.

 

"Where you state your agreement was terminated on 6 March 2008, this was the case but the agreement was not terminated in the sense you believe it was."

 

They then go on to talk a lot of nonsense about how termination does not mean termination.

 

How do they expect people to interpret official correspondence to mean anything other than what it actually says?

 

The dictionary definition of "terminated" is

 

1. To set a term or limit to; to form the extreme point or side of; to bound; to limit; as, to terminate a surface by a line. [1913 Webster] 2. To put an end to; to make to cease; as, to terminate an effort, or a controversy. [1913 Webster]

3. Hence, to put the finishing touch to; to bring to completion; to perfect. [1913 Webster]

 

 

Perhaps Egg have a dictionary all of their own. It might be an idea to supply one to anyone signing an agreement with them.

 

I wonder why Egg (and everyone else for that matter) continue to use the term 'terminate' when it was never used in their letter. They used the word 'end' which cannot be misinterpreted in any way.

[blackntan]

The original letter says in the first line-

 

"We are ending your Egg Card agreement"

 

The last sentence says-

 

"If you'd like to speak to someone about any financial difficulties you may have, or if you have any additional questions about the termination of your Egg Card Agreement, please call 0845 301 0892."

 

[HP Mum]

Black - your letter is slightly different from mine. I had not missed any payments. The wording on yours suggests that you had missed some, as Egg say your account was restricted...

Not sure if that makes any difference or not??

[blackntan]

No payments had been missed.

[BEC01]

BASA, you covered a very important point.

The fact that the words "terminate" and "end" were used make their intention very clear.

 

Everything has been brought to a final conclusion.

 

Furthermore, the gave an explicit date at which everything was to end.

 

There is not a cat's chance in hell that there could be any other conclusion to this (or at least that is what I have been advised by a PROPER lawyer).

 

Several of our group have ASKED Egg to take them to court, yet it has never happened.

 

I wonder why...

[Hopster]

BigEddie. Very interesting - if I understand you correctly. I was terminated by Egg - not behind with any payments at the time. If several of your group (can I join this group?) are asking Egg to take them to court knowing that Egg won't do that, are you saying that the Egg agreement is unenforceable ?

I have sent a CPR letter to the Egg DCA (ARC/Trevor Munn) who have replied saying that the matter is now on hold. Should I be having sleepless nights ? January 2006 was the date of the Egg agreement.

[blackntan]

Question to Peter Bard or anyone else.

 

I received the termination letter while not in default or behind with payments.

I sent a subject acess request to Egg, they replied that they would send what they believed was relavent dispite the fact that I asked for complete disclosure. I asked them to define what they thought was relavent to which I received no answer.

When the SARs came through there was no termination letter, (I have mine anyway).

My question is why would they withhold this document if what they have done is correct. I am not the only one not to have received the termination letter as part of a SARs request or even if requested seperately.

[MandM]

Question to Peter Bard or anyone else.

 

I received the termination letter while not in default or behind with payments.

I sent a subject acess request to Egg, they replied that they would send what they believed was relavent dispite the fact that I asked for complete disclosure. I asked them to define what they thought was relavent to which I received no answer.

When the SARs came through there was no termination letter, (I have mine anyway).

My question is why would they withhold this document if what they have done is correct. I am not the only one not to have received the termination letter as part of a SARs request or even if requested seperately.

 

TNs and DNs with Egg are just template letters so they don't keep copies. If you look in the Comms Log (which you should have got) you should find confirmation of the date of issue in there. With Egg, you need to have kept the originals (which you have )

 

M

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Egg are perfectly correct of coourse "termination"does not mean void or expunged. In the CCA it simply means cease to function.

Egg are not the only compaany that send termination letters to none defaulting lenders,the act permits it for commersial reasons and without notice on running credit accounts.

You really are barking up the wrong tree here.

 

Regards Peter

[Peterbard]

all of it and none of it

 

the creditor does NOT need anything in the contract or the CCA to prevent him from terminating the contract he (as can the debtor) can simply stick two fingers up at any time and say this contract is terminated however if it is not a lawful termination- then he has not in fact terminated he has merely stated his intent not to continue to perform his obligations

 

the ONLY way his unlawful attempt to terminate can result in termination is if the inured (performing ) party agrees to his unlawful act

 

My disagreement was with your suggestion that he could not UNLAWFULLY terminate.

 

HiDD

 

If termination under any circumstances was unlawful wouldnt it say so in the act, and doesnt the very fact that it doesnt say so defeat your argument section 170

 

Peter

[BEC01]

Question to Peter Bard or anyone else.

 

I received the termination letter while not in default or behind with payments.

I sent a subject acess request to Egg, they replied that they would send what they believed was relavent dispite the fact that I asked for complete disclosure. I asked them to define what they thought was relavent to which I received no answer.

When the SARs came through there was no termination letter, (I have mine anyway).

My question is why would they withhold this document if what they have done is correct. I am not the only one not to have received the termination letter as part of a SARs request or even if requested seperately.

 

Yes, they have also varied the termination letter when pushed for a copy. Obviously they thought that the original had been lost and sent a variation out. Make of that what you will...

 

BigEddie. Very interesting - if I understand you correctly. I was terminated by Egg - not behind with any payments at the time. If several of your group (can I join this group?) are asking Egg to take them to court knowing that Egg won't do that, are you saying that the Egg agreement is unenforceable ?

I have sent a CPR letter to the Egg DCA (ARC/Trevor Munn) who have replied saying that the matter is now on hold. Should I be having sleepless nights ? January 2006 was the date of the Egg agreement.

 

Firstly, we are a group of professionals who were miffed about the way Egge were treating us. So, we chipped in together and have paid several thousand to get expert advice. Based on that we stopped payment, recouped the costs, and have since struggled to get Egg to take us to court. They have also been extremely quiet in contacting us either directly or via DCA's. This is most unusual as the combined balances are almost £200k.

 

Secondly, we have not taken the enforceability route as it is not specifically our issue. We think ending and agreement, then continuing to run an unregulated credit facility has serious legal implications...

[Hopster]

Thx. Much Appreciated. Please Keep In Touch....................i Think That You Have A Big Point With Continuing To Run An Unregulated Credit Facility.....if It Is Unregulated. Is It Unregulated Because Egg Terminated The Agreement ?

[BEC01]

Absolutely, there are no terms or conditions of which to govern any facility.

There are several very subtle parts of law outwith consumer credit law which absolutely nails Egg.

 

I expect that £200k is minor compared to a precedent being set for the other 159,980 "terminees".

 

The question for us is if it is worth us instigation action...

[Peterbard]

Yes, they have also varied the termination letter when pushed for a copy. Obviously they thought that the original had been lost and sent a variation out. Make of that what you will...

 

 

 

Firstly, we are a group of professionals who were miffed about the way Egge were treating us. So, we chipped in together and have paid several thousand to get expert advice. Based on that we stopped payment, recouped the costs, and have since struggled to get Egg to take us to court. They have also been extremely quiet in contacting us either directly or via DCA's. This is most unusual as the combined balances are almost £200k.

 

Secondly, we have not taken the enforceability route as it is not specifically our issue. We think ending and agreement, then continuing to run an unregulated credit facility has serious legal implications...

Hi

 

If they took you to court what would your defence be?

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

Yes, they have also varied the termination letter when pushed for a copy. Obviously they thought that the original had been lost and sent a variation out. Make of that what you will...

 

 

 

Firstly, we are a group of professionals who were miffed about the way Egge were treating us. So, we chipped in together and have paid several thousand to get expert advice. Based on that we stopped payment, recouped the costs, and have since struggled to get Egg to take us to court. They have also been extremely quiet in contacting us either directly or via DCA's. This is most unusual as the combined balances are almost £200k.

 

Secondly, we have not taken the enforceability route as it is not specifically our issue. We think ending and agreement, then continuing to run an unregulated credit facility has serious legal implications...

Hi

As a professional person myself , I must admit I have several problems with this post

Surely to a judge it will appear that you took the creditors money without intending to pay ,whatever your reasoning. The Rankines tried that.

As a professional person do you think it was advisable to trash your credit rating and land yourself in a debt because they sent you a letter you didn’t like. As a professional I used to get letters I didn’t like everyday.

Isn’t the route to go if you are dissatisfied with the behaviour of a creditor the :OFT, BSO,MOJ,MP then chaining yourself to the railings outside the bank. I am sure the judge will think so.

 

Anyway it is academic because the argument is basically flawed anyway.

 

Regards

Peter

Peter

[twodogs]

Hi,

I received the Trevor Munn letter over a week ago, to which I responded. Now I have had another letter from ARC stating that their client says the matter is resolved and that the account is still ready for collection and what am I proposing to make payment.

 

I plan to respond to them stating that I am not satisfied with Egg's decision to my complaint and that they have no right collecting a disputed account and for them to send me a copy of their complaints procedure.

[HP Mum]

2dogs - what letter did you receive from TM?

[twodogs]

Hi,

The letter from T. Munn went along the lines of:

"On the instructions of our client ARC Europe (acting on behalf of Egg plc) documentation will now be prepared for the issue of a county court claim in the Northampton County Court for recovery of the above debt.

We have been instructed to prepare a claim in 10 days from date of this letter unless we receive either payment in full or substantial payment and a firm commitment to clear the remaining balance.

If it is necessary to take this step you may be liable for costs of £165.

 

To avoid this action send a payment TODAY made payable to ARC Europe blah blah blah."

 

In response to my response ARC have written to me giving me a further 14 days to pay up before further legal action.

[cosalt]

Hi

 

If they took you to court what would your defence be?

 

Peter

 

Quite simply if they took me to court I would defend on the basis that there is no agreement.

 

In my case egg 'ended' my agreement. If it is ended it no longer exists therefore any terms that were in it no longer exist. If there is no agreement it cannot conform to the cca 1974 and therefore they can't enforce it.

 

And of course my agreement did not show a credit limit so even if egg managed to argue that it was not ended it is unenforcable anyway due to a missing prescribed term.

 

Cosalt

[Hopster]

I wonder whether that would work......I think that you should take them to court .that's what I'm getting advice about...................I am not sure that they would want to take risk..............

[basa48]

Hi,

The letter from T. Munn went along the lines of:

"On the instructions of our client ARC Europe (acting on behalf of Egg plc) documentation will now be prepared for the issue of a county court claim in the Northampton County Court for recovery of the above debt.

We have been instructed to prepare a claim in 10 days from date of this letter unless we receive either payment in full or substantial payment and a firm commitment to clear the remaining balance.

If it is necessary to take this step you may be liable for costs of £165.

 

To avoid this action send a payment TODAY made payable to ARC Europe blah blah blah."

 

In response to my response ARC have written to me giving me a further 14 days to pay up before further legal action.

 

I got the exact same letter from TM. I replied that the agreement and how it was terminated did not comply with the provisions of the Act and I would vigorously defend any action.

 

ARC passed it back to Egg for instructions. 8)