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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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not displaying badge in private carpark.....HELP


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hows this

 

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: Your letter dated [dd/mmmm/yyyy] Reference[#]

 

I refer you to my letter dated [date], a copy of which has been enclosed for your ease of reference.

 

I have in the aforementioned letter acknowledged the receipt of your captioned letter dated [date].

 

I also stated in that letter that I was the Registered Keeper of the vehicle in question, as you will have discovered by getting my details from DVLA, but that you must direct your efforts to enforce any penalty to the driver of the vehicle at the time and date of the alleged contravention.I am under no obligation to provide you with the name and address of the driver at the time. ONLY the police have the right to request those details from me.

As you stated in your letter that you take disabled issues seriously i know the Driver did indeed have a valid blue badge which details can be produced should this issue go to county court.

At this juncture there is nothing more that I can add to enable the satisfactory conclusion of this matter for you, therefore I demand that you issue Court proceedings within 14 days or cease and desist from any further contact.

 

Any other form of contact whatsoever, whether by you or your agents, will be regarded as harassment and will be reported as such.

Yours Faithfully

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hows this

 

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: Your letter dated [dd/mmmm/yyyy] Reference[#]

 

I refer you to my letter dated [date], a copy of which has been enclosed for your ease of reference.

 

I have in the aforementioned letter acknowledged the receipt of your captioned letter dated [date].

 

I also stated in that letter that I was the Registered Keeper of the vehicle in question, as you will have discovered by getting my details from DVLA, but that you must direct your efforts to enforce any penalty to the driver of the vehicle at the time and date of the alleged contravention. I am under no obligation to provide you with the name and address of the driver at the time, even if I could be certain who the driver was. ONLY the police have the right to request those details from me.

As you stated in your letter that you take disabled issues seriously i know the Driver did indeed have a valid blue badge which details can be produced should this issue go to county court.

At this juncture there is nothing more that I can add to enable the satisfactory conclusion of this matter for you, therefore I demand that you issue Court proceedings within 14 days or cease and desist from any further contact.

 

Any other form of contact whatsoever, whether by you or your agents, will be regarded as harassment and will be reported as such.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Add the blue part if you want, but the part I've highlighted in red I would leave out. Never give them too much information. Other than that looks fine. Let's see how they respond.

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I demand that you issue Court proceedings within 14 days

 

FWIW I am not comfortable with the above. Such a "demand" has no basis in law and in my view undermines the credibility of the writer. For me it shows impatience and a lack of confidence in the writer's position.

 

Just my thoughts.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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BTB,

 

I respect your opinions greatly but sometimes you do just have to say - "different strokes for different folks".

 

You can always find better wording but the reasoning behind the letter is sound. It is saying "I'm bored with you now, there is no substance to your whining, either put up or shut up"

 

Yes, it may be impatient, but haven't we every right to be impatient with these bullies who threaten and bluster, misrepresent and misinform.

 

The letter also serves as a good marker should it come to making complaints of harrassment and malicious communications.

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BTB,

 

I respect your opinions greatly but sometimes you do just have to say - "different strokes for different folks".

 

You can always find better wording but the reasoning behind the letter is sound. It is saying "I'm bored with you now, there is no substance to your whining, either put up or shut up"

 

Yes, it may be impatient, but haven't we every right to be impatient with these bullies who threaten and bluster, misrepresent and misinform.

 

The letter also serves as a good marker should it come to making complaints of harrassment and malicious communications.

 

I have no problem with what you say. It's just one of those things that has been nagging. I've never bothered to mention it until now. If people want to say it that's fine by me, I'd just prefer it if they made the decision having thought about the angle I mention.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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as this was only my second letter from them and i expect many more regardless of what i write, this is what i sent in the end.............

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: Your letter dated 05/03/2008 Reference 63940

 

I refer you to my letter sent to you on the 29/02/2008 by recorded mail, which you acknowledge you have received

I stated in that letter that I was the Registered Keeper of the vehicle in question, as you will have discovered by getting my details from DVLA, but that you must direct your efforts to enforce any penalty to the driver of the vehicle at the time and date of the alleged contravention. I am under no obligation to provide you with the name and address of the driver at the time, even if I could be certain who the driver was. ONLY the police have the right to request those details from me.

At this juncture I ask you to provide evidence to substantiate your claim against me. I have done all that I can to assist you. Unless you provide evidence to substantiate your claim against me I shall be unable to help you further in this matter.

thankyou for all your input but i will send the cease and desist letter if and when i get their next reply

 

 

 

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ok got another letter well two together actually..........one is a standard 2nd reminder telling me my charge has now gone up to £192 and the other is a letter which reads....

I refer to the representation made by you in connection with the issue of the above parking charge, thankyou for your letter dated 5th march.your comments have been noted and will be held on file untill this matter proceeds to county court

yours sincerely

 

this is what i intend to send as my reply what do you think....

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: Your letter dated XX/03/2008 Reference XXXX

With reference to my letter dated XX/03/2008 in which I requested you to provide evidence of your claim against me. You have declined to do this by stating that you will only proffer this at the County Court instead of trying to resolve this issue at the earliest possible opportunity. Due to your decision to withhold this information I must inform you that I have done all that I can to assist you in this matter. Therefore I ask that you cease and desist in any other form of contact whatsoever, whether by you or your agents, as it will be regarded as harassment and will be reported as such.

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ok got another letter well two together actually..........one is a standard 2nd reminder telling me my charge has now gone up to £192 and the other is a letter which reads....

I refer to the representation made by you in connection with the issue of the above parking charge, thankyou for your letter dated 5th march.your comments have been noted and will be held on file untill this matter proceeds to county court

yours sincerely

 

this is what i intend to send as my reply what do you think....

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: Your letter dated XX/03/2008 Reference XXXX

 

With reference to my letter dated XX/03/2008 in which I requested you to provide evidence of your claim against me. You have declined to do this by stating that you will only proffer this at the County Court instead of trying to resolve this issue at the earliest possible opportunity. Due to your decision to withhold this information I must inform you that I have done all that I can to assist you in this matter. Therefore I ask that you cease and desist in any other form of contact whatsoever, whether by you or your agents, as it will be regarded as harassment and will be reported as such.

DOES THE LETTER SOUND OK

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Help needed,

 

I think you know the [problem] by now, no chance of UK PAO taking you court [is there Steve :) ? ]

 

Incidently, UK PAO's statement to you that they would only produce photographic and CCTV evidence on the day of the county court hearing shows a marked ignorance of court procedure.

 

Any evidence which UK PAO were to rely on would have to be submitted to you as part of their statement of claim, well prior to the hearing date. If they attempted to produce new evidence on the day itself, this would instantly be declared unfair and therefore inadmissable.

 

Given the above, your proposed letter is spot on. Please be aware though that UK PAO will carry on writing for a bit. They seem to feel the need to have the last word.

 

[That's OK isn't it Steve :) ? We don't mind you wasting all those stamps and using up all that red ink.]

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Barnsley Boy thanks, not bothered at all if they would like to keep writing to me, id rather keep paying the post office the charge for recorded delivery than give them a penny, and of course i have a defence if they wanna take me to court, they can provide new evidence if they like but i know theres cctv there and ill demand that they show where i went to the office in the carpark with BB afterwards, which of course my mum in law will come to court with me to produce, but obviously she lives nearly 2 hundred miles away from us so maybe i can claim the petrol back from them too on the day

who,s STEVE? is he the lovely man who writes to me?

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if they would like to keep writing to me, id rather keep paying the post office the charge for recorded delivery than give them a penny, and of course i have a defence if they wanna take me to court, they can

If they ever get you to court don't forget to counter claim for the cost of all those recorded deliveries. :grin:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

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Steve Hall [Hi Steve :) ] is named as a Director of UK PAO on the Companies House report. Steve Smith is the so called "Senior Appeals Manager" who rejected my "appeal" [which wasn't an appeal at all, merely a suggestion as to where to stick their parking ticket]

 

I have my suspicions that they are one and the same. UK PAO's "head office" is a grotty council house in Stanningly, Leeds. There's only so much room. PPCs aren't known for throwing their money about.

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Help Needed

They (he) have/has not provided the evidence to substantiate their claim against you that you requested. Instead they are just, as Barnsley Boy pointed out, trying to have the last word. It does not merit a response. Why bother engaging? I am sure you are far too busy to waste your time responding to their desperate attempts to try and intimidate you with their spurious claim for monies. The statement that "your comments have been noted and will be held on file until this matter proceeds to county court" is lame, but said to sound intimidating. I would ignore it, be cool and don't waste your time. They're obviously on the back foot if that's the best response they (he) could muster.

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Help Needed,

 

After their letter I sent the "cease & desist" and then stopped writing. I got 3 or 4 invoices after that, increasing the amount claimed by the £3 / day "liquidated damages*". The amount claimed went up to over £300 before Steve [Hi Steve :D ] stopped writing - must have fallen out with me.

 

From Case Law:

 

*The damages will be considered as liquidated in the following cases:

 

When the damages are uncertain and not capable of being ascertained by any satisfactory or known rule - whether the uncertainty lies in the nature of the subject itself or in the particular circumstances of the case;

 

When, from the nature of the case and the tenor of the agreement, it is clear that the damages have been the subject of actual and fair calculation and adjustment between the parties.

Not the case here - it is clear that UK PAO do not have the least understanding of the legal concepts involved.

 

The contractual remedy for late payment is interest. The courts routinely allow about 8% / year. On a typical UK PAO ticket of £60 this would amount to £4.80. In UK PAOs world they consider that 365 x £3 = £1,095 is more like it, 228 times what a court would allow.

 

This single fact alone makes UK PAOs proposterous claims completely unenforceable. No one should be in the least bit intimidated by their empty threats. If it came to it, a day in court would be a great day out with not the slightest change of losing.

 

If it happens to anybody, please tell me, I'd love to see Steve :p in person, if only to say Hi.

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It's not going to happen unfortunately, if it did I, and others, would certainly help you formulate the defence statement and turn up on the day to watch Steve [hiya :p ] trying to explain his understanding of liquidated damages to the beak.

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  • 2 weeks later...

well sent my cease and desist letter and this is the reply i got this morning..........

 

i refer to the representation made by you in connection with the issue of the above parking charge.

thankyou for yuor letter dated ***** . i note from your letter you are requesting evidence of the offence, but as you have not provided the name and address of the driver at the time of the charge being issued, there is little we can do, but issue county court proceedings and let the court decide.

we as a company issue the charge to the vehicle, the DVLA provide us with the registered keeper details at out request. we can issue you with the photographic evidence as enclosed,

the onus is on the driver to make sure he/she leaves the vehicle in an appropiate parking space. we take all disabled issues seriously. as you stated in your letter you have no obligation to supply the name and address of the driver, we have no alternative but to issue court proceedings.

your comments have been noted and will be held on file untill this matter proceeds to county court,

yours sincerely

steven smith

 

 

they kindly enclosed a photo of my car for free too, :)

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Help Needed,

 

You know the score. Even if they do issue court papers they won't turn up - will you Steve :) ?

 

It happened to Abbie, she got her best dress ironed and everything but Steve cried off at the last minute.

 

Don't worry, easy said I know but DON'T WORRY.

 

You've sent them a letter saying "take me to court". They have replied by saying they might............ You should be petrified [NOT]

 

File away in a dark but safe place and let Steve fester.

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thanks BB

Im not gonna fret over it thats for sure, let them take me to court, by the sound of the letter if i hear from them again it should be the issue of court proceedings notice, actually i wish they would as i can arrive with my defence, (and my mother in law),

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well after the last letter from them saying they would be issuing court proceedings, i have received another letter today asking me to pay £252 now and i have ten days to pay, (fat chance) it also says we will continue to enforce the remainder of the debt and will also continue to increase the daily amount

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