HMRC Walking Posession Order

[gavman99]

Heres my situation.........

 

I allowed an HMRC officer into my house to discuss the outstanding income tax bills I hadn't paid. He asked if I could paid the monies there and then and I said no. He then listed the car and all items of value in my house on a walking posession order which I signed. I then had five days to pay the debt or those items would be removed by HMRC bailiffs.

 

Two days later, I went to court and made myself bankrupt. The court successfully granted the bankruptcy order. I am now waiting on the court appointed trustee to contact me to discuss my assets, etc.

 

I have not contacted HMRC to let them know that I am now bankrupt. I have been told that as they are listed as a creditor on the bankruptcy order, the trustee will contact them in due course (Is this correct or should I let them know ?)

 

So my question is this.........

 

1. Can the HMRC bailiffs still remove the goods on the walking posession order ?

 

2. Or does the bankruptcy order override the walking posession order and all assets must remain in the house until the trustee arranges for them to be sold off ?

 

If it's the latter, would HMRC basically rip up the walking posession order and leave it up to the trustee to rewrite the asset list ?

 

Many thanks for any help you can give.

 

Cheers

Gav.

[tomterm8]

Hi, i don't know the answer, but I've asked for this to be moved to the baliff subforum where you will be able to get some more help.

[reduk054]

Hi GAvman, sorry to hear about your situation, I cant answer all of your questions, but with regard to your creditors, your official receiver/trustee will contact ALL creditors on your behalf. In effect the debts are not yours, they are his (hers!). I would phone your OR and ask specifically about the walking possession order! They will advise you properly!

Good luck Red

[tomterm8]

It is also worth calling national debt line.

[rory32]

Thread moved

[tomtubby]

Thankfully this is not a question that is raised very often. I am unsure of the response without reading up on the matter.

 

Hopefully John Mc Kenna will be along soon and he may know the answer otherwise I will look into this.

[gizmo111]

As the debt has been included in the bankruptcy, the only sanctions that can be placed on you are by the OR. The walking possesion is effectively void, same as CCJ's etc.

I would contact HMRC to let them know though, to save any problems if they haven't been informed by the OR yet.

[gavman99]

Thanks everyone......much appreciated. Any further info would be most welcome......cheers.

[tomterm8]

As the debt has been included in the bankruptcy, the only sanctions that can be placed on you are by the OR. The walking possesion is effectively void, same as CCJ's etc.

I would contact HMRC to let them know though, to save any problems if they haven't been informed by the OR yet.

 

I thought some HMRC debts are not included in the bankruptcy estate?

[gizmo111]

I thought some HMRC debts are not included in the bankruptcy estate?

 

I thought all HMRC except those subject to criminal proceedings (tax evasion) were included in bankruptcy.

[reduk054]

Gizmo, re HMRC debts. My accountant advised me today that OH fines for late submission of annual accounts should be in his BR proceedings. So think that you are right!

Red

[gavman99]

Can anyone confirm if the bankruptcy order basically null and voids the walking posession order that HMRC have yet to collect on ?

[tomterm8]

I would tend to go with gizmo, she does know more than me, but it is worth talking to national debt line.

[gizmo111]

Can anyone confirm if the bankruptcy order basically null and voids the walking posession order that HMRC have yet to collect on ?

 

AFAIK it does, but to be sure ring the HMRC and ask them, it will stop any confusion anyway if they know you are BR.

 

I would tend to go with gizmo, she does know more than me, but it is worth talking to national debt line.

 

Sorry Tom, can't agree with that statement.

[Belaflat]

I dont have any knowledge in this area but find myself asking what would happen to the goods if they had been taken there and then by the HMRC man.

 

Would they be returned or would they say, tough, you were not bust when we took them and that would be it. I ask as a walking possession agreement is basically the same and the original owner of the goods is merely a custodian until such time as money is paid to release them.

[tomterm8]

The thing is, Belaflat, that you are entering into deep and murkey law. Technically, the OR has the legal right to dispose of the debtors assets as he/she sees fit, and to go back over previous disposal arrangements and revoke them; i.e. assets taken by a baliff might give a particular creditor unfair priority.

[Belaflat]

I understand what you are saying and have read the OR has very wide ranging powers to revoke deals and sales etc if he deems them to have given others unfair priority.

 

Wonder what would have been the case if instead of a walking possession order, they had gone for a charging order on a home.

Would the OR have the power to revoke that or is that a different kettle of fish altogether.

[Zigzagz]

No the rules are that bankruptcy is for the benefit of ALL creditors.

 

Therefore if the "execution" as the bailiff action is called is COMPLETE by the time of the bankruptcy, then the person seizing the goods is entitled to retain the benefit. Otherwise they have to release the benefit of the execution to the Official Reciever (who in all likelihood won't pursue the matter because the costs usually outweigh the benefits).

 

Execution by bailiffs is only complete when:-

 

1) The goods have been seized AND sold, or

2) Payment has been received

 

AND ALSO

 

3) At least 14 days have passed before the bankruptcy order.

 

For the above reason, bailiffs will hold on to any money they receive for at least 14 days before passing it on to the relevant creditor.