Advice when being banned

[make them aktiv runners]

The payment was not correct due to the OP swapping price tickets around to make the items cheaper. Beginning and end of story.

I know, OP mentioned they offered correct payment but TKMaxx refused to accept the difference between amount paid and amount payable (but retained shoes that OP had effectively partially paid for).

[blueskies]

They don't have to accept the difference at all, they have the option not to sell (but having said that they shouldn't have taken money and not provided goods)

[Lara blues]

What are your issues exactly, 2 threads in 2 different sections, slight varience on story http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-knowledge/120085-lara-blues-retail-loss.html :?:

 

Hi Suzie,

First I wanted to know others opinions, as I said I am not British and now I know that I WRONLY thought that if I were, they would have dealt with me differently: Other staff making comments and mocking me, accussing me out of the blue of CREDIT CARD FRAUD, saying that I´ve done that before, etc. Having cleared that out, I was not familiar with these issues. I wanted to know also the legal implications of what happened but also I found very useful that some people expressed what it could have happened if:Arrested, Caution, etc. Which luckily didn´t. Secondly, I was concerned about the fine-payment to RLP; the store kept my money and the shoes. Trying to have some peace of mind, on Friday I asked my boyfriend to buy for me those shoes, they were still there with no tags at all, he went, asked the manager so now I have the receipt and the shoes, they can´t say they couldn´t sell them as a result of my actions and it is my way of making it up to them.Thirdly, Someone here suggested to post a thread to get advice on RLP which is a good idea because I will need to deal with them when I get the fine-letter. And last, I decided to post regarding the banning because I regret I can´t shop at Tk maxx anymore and wondered what if.

[Lara blues]

Blueskies,

I have been searching about "The Fraud Act 2006 repealed the deception offences contained within the Theft Act 68 & 78" but I do not understand it quite well. Could you explain it please? Regards.

[MARTIN3030]

Pretty straightforward Lara.

The offences that would have been applicable under the Theft act of 1968 /1978...are now contained within the fraud act which came into effect in 2006.

here are some points of the act.

 

 

The Act gives a statutory definition of the criminal offence of fraud defining it in three classes - fraud by false representation, fraud by failing to disclose information, and fraud by abuse of position. It provides that a person found guilty of fraud was liable to a fine or imprisonment for up to twelve months on summary conviction (six months in Northern Ireland), or a fine or imprisonment for up to ten years on conviction on indictment. This Act largely replaces the laws relating to obtaining property by deception, obtaining a pecuniary advantage and other offences that were created under the Theft Act 1978. These offences attracted much criticism for their complexity and difficulty in proving at court. Much of the Theft Act 1978 has been repealed, however, the offence of making off without payment, defined under section 3 has not been affected.

• "Fraud by false representation" is defined by Section 2 of the Act as a case where a person makes "any representation as to fact or law ... express or implied" which they know to be untrue or misleading.

• "Fraud by failing to disclose information" is defined by Section 3 of the Act as a case where a person fails to disclose any information to a third party when they are under a legal duty to disclose such information.

• "Fraud by abuse of position" is defined by Section 4 of the Act as a case where a person occupies a position where they are expected to safeguard the financial interests of another person, and abuses that position; this includes cases where the abuse consisted of an omission rather than an overt act.

In all three classes of fraud, it requires that for an offence to have occurred, the person must have acted dishonestly and that they had to have acted with the intent of making a gain for themselves or anyone else, or inflicting a loss (or a risk of loss) on another.

 

Gain and loss

 

A "gain" or a "loss" is defined to consist only of a gain or a loss in money or property (including intangible property), but could be temporary or permanent. A "gain" could be construed as gaining by keeping their existing possessions, not just by obtaining new ones, and loss included losses of expected acquisitions, as well as losses of already-held property.

[Lara blues]

Thank you Martin,

 

If I was not arrested by the police, then, what is my situation here? Would you consider paying to RLP whatever fine they place me with? Should I write a letter to the General Store Manager apologizing and telling the whole situation, promise not to ever do it again? I´ve spent about 500gbp in less than a month in Tk maxx and I do have all my receipts. I know I have no right to change prices myself but in my experience with the shop, usually when asked for price clarifications they´ve always given me the most expensive option within the brand. e.g. There were lost of watches from Mango (brand), there was only a different one with black straps no price on it, as on other occassions when getting to the till assuming an itmen may be similar price as others there with the same-identical features, they always have given me a higher price and ended paying it. so I asked a sales assisstant to check the price for me, which she did and while the rest of the watches were 19.99 this one was according to her call to the manager 29.99. I told her I wouldn´t buy it and I didn´t, this was the same shop of the incident.

The day of the Incident which about two days after asking for the watch, I saw loads of the same black strap watches identical to the one I wanted, so I went to see the price on the tags, they all were 19.99! so when I went to the shoe department to look if they had the shoes, they were priced yes, but a lot more expensive than in the other tk maxx shop, so there I thought, if i ask they will just tell me "that" is the price and very wrongly decided to swap tags myself.Again should I write the General Store Manager explaining the whole situation or do you think it is pointless because what I did makes me a horrible person in the eyes of the fair and just and puts me in the same scale as the shoplifters or thieves when I´ve always been an honourable person to the people who have known me or met me, but what I did there errases everything I´ve always been and makes me a dirty **** thief?

[blueskies]

By the way I thought I should post this

The Fraud Act 2006 repealed the deception offences contained within the Theft Act 68 & 78.

 

Thanks to Paul from pinks for this info.

 

Thankyou to Martin (and Paul) for correcting me in in this issue. I have not served as a police officer since the new law came into force and was unaware of the change.

[Lara blues]

If someone could advice me please.

I am returning to my country and I still haven´t got RLP letter with the fine, I am stressing ´cause my close friends are moving out of the country as well and I won´t have anyone to send me whatever post I get. What should I do? Should I write tkmaxx telling them or RLP? Go to the police?Thank you in advanced.

[Lara blues]

Thankyou to Martin (and Paul) for correcting me in in this issue. I have not served as a police officer since the new law came into force and was unaware of the change.

 

I am returning to my country and I still haven´t got RLP letter with the fine, I am stressing ´cause my close friends are moving out of the country as well and I won´t have anyone to send me whatever post I get. What should I do? Should I write tkmaxx telling them or RLP? Go to the police?Thank you in advanced.

[davoir2000]

You were very very lucky in this situation, I have worked as Store Security in a Large Marks and Spencers outlet, and Have done CCTV Monitoring before, and you really were lucky that the police did not arrest you for this offence. I would just like to mention that you seem to keep playing the race thing too much, it had nothing to do with your race, just the fact that you were in fact stealing, whether or not you handed over money for the goods, it is stil infact stealing as you had changed the price tags to a lower price. Due to no action being taken by the police, The store should of however refunded you the money they took for the shoes if they were going to keep the shoes.

IMHO I do think you were very lucky that tk maxx only banned you from the store, In cases I have had to deal with similar to this, where people fraudulently pay for items for which they have 'marked down' per se, the police have always took action and the person was always charged and prosecuted, the only times when this was not the case was when there were minors involved. If I were you I would thank your lucky stars that the police did not take action.

[Lara blues]

IMHO I do think you were very lucky that tk maxx only banned you from the store, In cases I have had to deal with similar to this, where people fraudulently pay for items for which they have 'marked down' per se, the police have always took action and the person was always charged and prosecuted, the only times when this was not the case was when there were minors involved. If I were you I would thank your lucky stars that the police did not take action.

 

Yes I am thankful and I will never do anything as such. The tag of a thief or criminal/fraudulent sound awful,and could have made me become a resented and just commit something worse since everyone already thinks I am a criminal and I felt back then as part of the underworld. Friends were very supportive and also reading about it on the net scared me but helped me a lot; I learned my lesson and the whole thing was traumatising. I must say the police were really nice when they came over to verify my address.

However the store did told me I should receive by post a fine given by Retail Loss Prevention which hasn´t happened yet and I am very worried because I am going back permanently to my country and do not know the consequences of ignoring RLP letters as I am guessing they will keep sending a letter over and over with a higher fine each time and then take court action?

Anyways as you said I ´ve been very lucky and I do not want a criminal or anything on my record.I was asking earlier what should I do then: write or call tk maxx and inform them I am going to live abroad, RLP or go to the police?

[honey5]

i think in all honesty you need to step back and think would this behaviour have been accepted in your own country as you state you are not of British origin?

honey x

[ForestChav]

But surely there is no loss now, the store have the goods plus the lower price you paid for them?

[Guest Gertie100]

Am I the only one who has a problem with both these TK Maxx threads?

[Lara blues]

But surely there is no loss now, the store have the goods plus the lower price you paid for them?

 

Ok but, What do you think I should do? I am soon going back to my country. What if I get a RLP letter? I´ve read the case about debenhams and RLP with the niece wrongly accussed;my case is different but I do not have the time to wait and reply to letters. Then again, I ask anyone here, What should I do as I do not want a record on my name as a consequence of what this may bring?

 

 

Gertie, I have a moral and ethical problem as a result of this whole issue. I understand if this seems to cause you a problem or seems to make you sick. I have been sick because of this. So, I guess if this might upset you, remember is you, who decides what to read or not. Best of luck and sincerely hope you never do anything stupid in your life.

[Guest Gertie100]

Lara - the point was that you did something that was not only stupid but what you knew was wrong! There is a big difference between asking for advise because of stupidity and coming on here asking for help to get away with something which is against the law!!!!

As pointed out earlier, you then tried to play the race card as if that extonerated you from blame!

 

I do stupid things every day of my life - I don't break the law every day and come on here asking how to get away it.

Perhaps the moral and ethical part should have come to the forefront prior to walking into TK Maxx?

And if you don't like my posts then perhaps you should stop reading.

[blueskies]

Much as I don't have any interest in doing so I am going to answer Lara's question. You only have a 'civil debt' to RLP for the cost of dealing with your actions. This is NOT a fine and is not a punishment of any form. I am certain that if RLP were going to they would have already been in contact. You are perfectlt safe to leave the country permanently and, if RLP wish to pursue you for the money they will have to follow the legal system of your country of origin which is VERY HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

 

I do note that you keep saying that your country of origin is not Britain (I think in every post) but you have neglected to tell us where you were actually born. I am of the belief that his is a spoof post as highlighted before

[Lara blues]

Lara - the point was that you did something that was not only stupid but what you knew was wrong! There is a big difference between asking for advise because of stupidity and coming on here asking for help to get away with something which is against the law!!!!

As pointed out earlier, you then tried to play the race card as if that extonerated you from blame!

 

I do stupid things every day of my life - I don't break the law every day and come on here asking how to get away it.

Perhaps the moral and ethical part should have come to the forefront prior to walking into TK Maxx?

And if you don't like my posts then perhaps you should stop reading.

 

Gertie, I did not plan to change the price on the shoes prior walking into Tk maxx and I do not brake the law every day of my life. I´ve NEVER done anything before or after the incident and perhaps that´s why this hit me bad and scared me. You asked here if you were the only one with a problem with this threads. Why would I stop reading a thread I started?

 

I want to know what is the best way to deal with it legally because I am going back very soon to my country permanently. Easily I could choose to forget about it, I do not think I need to come back to the UK . The two police officers clearly told me in my house that police has now nothing to do with it and again they were very nice.Anyways sorry Gertie.

[blueskies]

No answer to me then Lara??

[Lara blues]

Much as I don't have any interest in doing so I am going to answer Lara's question. You only have a 'civil debt' to RLP for the cost of dealing with your actions. This is NOT a fine and is not a punishment of any form. I am certain that if RLP were going to they would have already been in contact. You are perfectlt safe to leave the country permanently and, if RLP wish to pursue you for the money they will have to follow the legal system of your country of origin which is VERY HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

 

I do note that you keep saying that your country of origin is not Britain (I think in every post) but you have neglected to tell us where you were actually born. I am of the belief that his is a spoof post as highlighted before

 

 

Thanks for your reply Blueskies. This incident did happened, I am an international posgraduate student from Colombia. I have concluded my studies and returning to my permanent job back home.

[tiglet]

I'm agreeing with Bluey here, I'm afraid peeps - OP's syntax and spelling keeps changing in a way which appears to be inconsistent.

 

It almost seems as if someone is wanting advice after breaking the law or is wanting someone to play the race card - i would advise neither happens.

[blueskies]

I am wholeheartedly against racism of any form and, as the OP's question has been answered on this thread I see no reason for it to remain open other than to cajole racist comments from members. I am therefore closing the thread. If Lara wishes it reopened then if she could please PM me with a reason and I will do so.