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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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LloydsTSB / BCW / FoS


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I am in exactly the same position with my daughter's claim against Capital One. I did pursue it through to the Ombudsman who agreed with the Adjudicator's decision. As far as they are concerned just because no credit agreement exists doesn't mean that there isn't a debt.

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Thanks surprise for helping me out on this one,about the Ombudsman/adjudicator, and how awful for you and your daughter's claim. Will it be court for you next, and how damaging has the decision by the FOS been, will a court also rule against you too, based on the FOS decision?

I have other cases which potentially may go to the FOS, but I am seriously reconsidering. I think that I have not achieved anything, other than a huge waste of my time, and no doubt rattled the bank in the meantime, which they will take much pleasure in coming back to me for money.

Oh dear

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Oh Surprise, I fully empathise with your predicament, and can understand your decision following the involvement of the FOS.

My adjudicator needs a large poke with a big stick.

I am going to try and send my letter today to the FOS (if I can get all my points across clearly, been struggling with the letter, as it needs to be good, even though I doubt that the ajudicator will change their mind!).

Still waiting for my aknowledgement email regarding my latest letters sent. I feel really unimportant!

:(

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Once its referred to the Ombudsman you will get an acknowledgement stating that they will reply in 8 weeks. Exactly 8 weeks when I received my letter. Personally, I felt it was a complete waste of time as I put in extra hours gathering info quoting OFT's Guidelines all to no avail. Remember though when LLoyds come chasing they still need a signed agreement with all the prescribed terms.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well the FOS have let me down big time, IMO they have not read the complaints/supporting documents or arguments properly. I will have one last ditch attempt by requesting the dispute is put before an Ombudsman, but I have yet to have read of a case where the Ombudsman disagrees with the adjudicator. I just feel that none of my points have been understood, and I am soooooo fustrated!

Sadly this is not related to CCA arguments, so LLoyds will be laughing all over me when the FOS write through to them.

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I know how you feel, but personally I wouldn't get too wound up, its not worth it. I think if you do complain to the Ombudsman I think it will be just another 8 weeks of wasted time. I think all these regulatory bodies are a waste of space they are supposed to be mediators but how can they mediate when they don't understand the law?

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Surprise, I am inclined to agree with your conviction regarding the FOS.

My fustration is construed purely by the FOS inability to be thorough, to be objective, and to use common sense, based on facts and not a one-sided argument (ie what the bank say must be correct, even though I have proved that they have lied!)

I will escalate the claim to the Ombudsman, not because I enjoy my own pain and suffering, however it will enable me to make further decisions regarding my claim, ie potential court action.

I absolutely refuse to pay the bank charges levied through their own incompetancies, regardless of what the FOS say!

I have to reply by the first week of August to my adjudicator, so that should give me a few more days to calm down. The cheek of it is, although I have sent approx 40 letters of correspondence between me and the bank, argued admirably, the adjudicator still is insisting on further proof that my claim should be assessed further.

Honestly!

Oh well, I may go into the Guiness Book of Records as the first person to have an Ombudsman disagree with the adjudicator! And then again....

Thanks for your support! Much appreciated.

Red x

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Update:

My last letter has been drafted, to request that my case should be looked at by an Ombudsman, and reiterating my points which I feel should have been addressed (if not by the bank, then certainly by the adjudicator!!).

All I have asked for is to be put into the same position that I was (broke, but not over-broke!!) before.

Not asked for compensation (did not read Really Mad Woman's sticky on complaining to the FOS before I started my claim), just something IMO fair and reasonable.

We are only talking a tiny little sum here, and my credit rating (which is awful any way), but its the principle of the matter.

Sadly I don't think that the FOS will change their mind, but I will go down fighting!!

Red

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Good luck with this. I have still one more case with the FOS and thats against CitiCards. Because the FOS have had this claim since June 07 Citicards sold the debt to 1st Credit. This has caused extra agro from 1st Credit so I have complained bitterly to the FOS and OFT. The FOS contacted Citi to ask them to suspend collection until negotiations had been finalised. Citi agreed but they failed to inform the FOS that they had already sold the debt to 1st Credit. I received a letter from 1st Credit's so called Solicitors and I sent them a copy of the email from the FOS and things have now gone very quiet.

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Surprise, thank you for your on-going support for my case.

With your latest FOS complaint, Have you sent a copy of 1st credit's solicitor's letter to the FOS? Although your complaint is on-going, the FOS would need to be made aware of Citicard's actions and surely this would in turn assist your complaint further?!

Red

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OK, last letter to my adjudicator, requesting Ombudsman involvement. Just reiterating that I should not be worse off financially or credit-rating blackened due to Lloyds mistakes.

Sent recorded....we will see!

If not then hey ho hey ho its off to court I go....:p

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Well at least you have another 8 weeks before you will need to make any further decisions.

 

Very true! Just enough time for me to start the ball rolling via the courts about another Lloyds account, and bank charges!:rolleyes:

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  • 2 months later...

Have received a letter from the FOS regarding the outstanding case. Rather than being assigned to an ombudsman, another adjudicator has taken over my file due to my case not being dealt with fully by the previous adjudicator (who is on long term leave!).

So, am quite happy that I am back in the system so to speak!

All my low feelings about the FOS and their ability to look at cases in their entirity are currently suspended.

Should be interesting, as FOS are asking Lloyds for more statements!

In the meantime, Lloyds have not been in touch!

Red

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As you say, its wait and see. My Citicards has finally been dealt with to which I am satisfied. Citi took the account back to the figure it was when it went into dispute. I got my charges back plus £50 for the tone of one of their letters which I complained about. So a figure of £915 when 1st Credit were assigned it has now gone down to just under £300 which I happy to settle at.

 

I do have another case with the FOS which will be interesting. Following on from their failure with my daughter's claim with CapOne, CapOne have refused to deal with me. My daughter has mental health problems, and has signed authorisation for me to deal with this matter. The FOS were quite happy to negotiate with me but not CapOne. After several letters to them and four authorisations they kept writing to my daughter, so I gave them an ultimatum write to me or I will put a further complaint in with the FOS for harassment. They sent a default notice to her so I put a complaint for harassment two weeks ago and they have already written to CapOne. I am absolutely seething about CapOne on this issue so I will not let it go. As a gesture of goodwill and to get CapOne off our backs I even made a full and final settlement offer which they did not acknowledge.

 

Good luck with yours and I will let you know how CapOne goes.

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Hi Surprise,

OMG! What a nightmare you are having re CapOne. It always amazes me that where a company can be so vicious with one customer, they can be supportive and understanding with another! CapOne seem a little Jekell and Hyde, as with me they have been very competant, and understanding (best not speak too soon though!)

IMO, it does feel that I am not so alone with my problems (other than sharing thm on here!), when I contact the FOS, OFT and TS. It still seems though that companies still have the upper hand, and the clout, and the departments to apply the thumb screws, let alone their DCAs etc, regardless of these external bodies who are here to help and support Joe Public. It sounds as though the FOS have been excellent so far in your case, you must have a good contact at their end!

I have contacted my new adjudicator to aknowledge his letter, which did give a little light at the end of a long dark tunnel. Mind you, what I am quibbling about is financially a low low amount, but stress wise, very high! Lloyds in fairness have stopped contacting me since the FOS involvement, but I will still have to await the outcome, but definitely feeling more positive! :)

best of luck with your daughter's case, and yes please keep me informed!

I will do likewise, good or bad!!!!

Red

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