Unfair PCN issued?

[gjkendall]

My wife recieved a PCN in August when away in sunny Clacton...her Mother is disabled and they had all the relevant badges on display on the dashboard and had returned to the car within the timelimit. Only to find a ticket claiming that the badges were not visible to to the warden.

 

It has transpired that the badge with the photo on was upside down on the dashboard.

 

We have formally contested the charge, but have recieved a letter basically saying tough!

 

It is now a matter of either paying £30 now or wait for notice and go through the formal contest!

 

Do we have a leg to stand on?

[green_and_mean]

No not really unless there was something wrong with the actual PCN. The rules of the Badge are quite clear it needs to be displayed so the Council/Police can check the serial no. and the expiry date. If the photo side is upwards no details can be checked making the badge invalid. BB holders get a pretty good deal as far as parking goes so its not much to ask to have the badge displayed correctly however harsh it may seem.

[rogerebaker]

The most recent NPAS annual report slated the councils for not showing descretion especially towards incidents like this.

 

I would appeal. The maximum it will cost you is another 30.00 and the chances of them getting all the paperwork correct are slim.

 

Are you able to post the PCN, NTO and NRO on hear so we can look at it

[gjkendall]

The most recent NPAS annual report slated the councils for not showing descretion especially towards incidents like this.

 

I would appeal. The maximum it will cost you is another 30.00 and the chances of them getting all the paperwork correct are slim.

 

Are you able to post the PCN, NTO and NRO on hear so we can look at it

 

I am unable to scan or post images, but I can give you the text content tomorrow morning...what is the NTO and NRO? All I have so far is the ticket, the intial letter confirming the ticket and a letter in answer to our intial contestment!

 

Thanks for the replies guys!

[rogerebaker]

I am unable to scan or post images, but I can give you the text content tomorrow morning...what is the NTO and NRO? All I have so far is the ticket, the intial letter confirming the ticket and a letter in answer to our intial contestment!

 

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

NTO - Notice to owner

 

NRO - Notice of rejection in reply to your formal representations.

 

If you have made only informal representation as a result of the PCN wait for the notice to owner and make formal represenattion. Then wait for the Notice of rejection which will no doubt have some errors on it. Long way to go yet

[green_and_mean]

Make sure its worth appealing before waiting for the penalty to increase, the adjudicator will rule in the councils favour regarding displaying the badge as it was not correctly displayed. If the PCN is correct in format there is no point wasting a further £30 on a matter of principle. Before anyone accuses me of taking the Councils side I'm just being realistic £30 is bad enough to lose over a silly mistake but better than losing £60.

[B.A.Ts]

I do sympathise with you with regards to this PCN, I live in clacton and I know how they are with the strictness of the rules and regulations and Im sorry that your day out here was spoiled by these traffic wardens. I myself am a BB holder and just having renewed mine Im just reading through the booklet,

Section 10;

Your blue badge must be on the dashboard or facia of the vehicle where it can be seen through the windscreen. You have to show the front of your badge. That is the side of the wheelchair symbol on it. This is so people who inspect it can see what is written on it.

underneath this paragraph are two pictures one with the bb facing up with a tick by it and the other upside down with a cross by it.

11.

If you do not display your badge correctly you could receive a parking fine. You should display your parking badge where it can be seen clearly.

 

in my opinion if you can see and be able to read the badge whether it be upside down or not then that should not be a problem. Ive come to the conclusion that traffic wardens dont like bb holders and will jump at the chance at any little thing just to give them a ticket, I have had many run ins with them here and they really like to go by the book. personally I would fight it, as I am currently doing to three tickets that are being heard with NPAS in October.

 

Green and mean; having a blue badge comes with many rules and regulations and some are very hard to follow and we dont really have a 'pretty good deal' as you put it. before parking we have to check to see what lines are there where we can park and they are not always visible where they have worn away. signs are not always visible where we cant park as most are very high up, disabled parking bays are very few and far between especially in towns. Blue badges are not easy to obtain either and people are vetted very rigorously before one is given out. Disabled people rely on their badges so that they can obtain some normality in their lives and be able to do things for themselves with in the boundaries of their capabilities. It saddens me to think that people think we get get a pretty good deal where parking is concerned because we dont we have limited lives and these bb just give us that little extra freedom that we would not be able to have.

[green_and_mean]

Green and mean; having a blue badge comes with many rules and regulations and some are very hard to follow and we dont really have a 'pretty good deal' as you put it. before parking we have to check to see what lines are there where we can park and they are not always visible where they have worn away. signs are not always visible where we cant park as most are very high up, disabled parking bays are very few and far between especially in towns. Blue badges are not easy to obtain either and people are vetted very rigorously before one is given out. Disabled people rely on their badges so that they can obtain some normality in their lives and be able to do things for themselves with in the boundaries of their capabilities. It saddens me to think that people think we get get a pretty good deal where parking is concerned because we dont we have limited lives and these bb just give us that little extra freedom that we would not be able to have.

 

I didn't say being disabled was a good deal but getting free parking almost anywhere just for displaying a blue badge was a good deal. Everyone has to check signs when they park but if you have a bb most signs let you park free except for loading restrictions. Able bodied drivers have to pay for parking and permits and still get fined if they don't display the permit/ticket so it is not unreasonable to expect the same from bb users.

[B.A.Ts]

The person did have the bb on display it was just upside down which is a very honest mistake and should not be penalised for this, If all details where readable then it should not matter. however if the details were unreadable then yes I agree with you a ticket should have been given.

 

people with bb cannot park just anywhere with exceptions of loading bays we can only park where we are allowed to park where able bodied people cannot, like I said. This is for a reason that they cannot walk as far as an able bodied person so we are allowed to park for longer periods of time in free parking spaces where able bodied people can only park for an hour. we are restricted where we park , some private car parks dont have concessions for the disabled and we have to pay the same amounts as able bodied people.. we really dont get a 'good deal'

[green_and_mean]

The person did have the bb on display it was just upside down which is a very honest mistake and should not be penalised for this, If all details where readable then it should not matter. however if the details were unreadable then yes I agree with you a ticket should have been given.

 

people with bb cannot park just anywhere with exceptions of loading bays we can only park where we are allowed to park where able bodied people cannot, like I said. This is for a reason that they cannot walk as far as an able bodied person so we are allowed to park for longer periods of time in free parking spaces where able bodied people can only park for an hour. we are restricted where we park , some private car parks dont have concessions for the disabled and we have to pay the same amounts as able bodied people.. we really dont get a 'good deal'

 

The Badge was photo side up so unless the PA had X ray vision neither the serial number or expiry date would not have been visible an honest mistake maybe but the badge could have been stolen or expired hence the PCN.

You can park on

Single yellow lines (free)

Double yellow lines (free)

Pay and Display (free)

Council car parks (usually free)

Blue badge bays (free)

Permit bays in some areas (free)

 

I realise the reason is the limited mobility but it is still a good deal considering it is not means tested. If you take extremes like Heather Mills who is eligable for a BB as an amputee and is getting at least $20m for her divorce yet is entitled to free parking due to her lack of mobility outside the studio where she is mobile enough to be competing in a ballroom dancing competition. I'm not saying I would swap being able to walk properly for cheap parking but a lot of people seem to have them that are far more able bodied than myself. I know of several cases were they have been given to obese people because their weight makes it hard for them to get about, I would have thought even the stupidest Dr would realise walking even less is not going to help matters? It does also seem rather bizarre that you can compete in the London Marathon as a disabled runner, run 26 miles then return to your car parked using a BB because you have difficulty walking 50m? The whole BB system is flawed, openly abused and almost impossible to enforce. Genuine users like yourself who deserve and use the badge properly are from what I can see sadly in the minority.

[B.A.Ts]

The Badge was photo side up so unless the PA had X ray vision neither the serial number or expiry date would not have been visible an honest mistake maybe but the badge could have been stolen or expired hence the PCN.

You can park on

Single yellow lines (free)

Double yellow lines (free)

Pay and Display (free)

Council car parks (usually free)

Blue badge bays (free)

Permit bays in some areas (free)

 

I realise the reason is the limited mobility but it is still a good deal considering it is not means tested. If you take extremes like Heather Mills who is eligable for a BB as an amputee and is getting at least $20m for her divorce yet is entitled to free parking due to her lack of mobility outside the studio where she is mobile enough to be competing in a ballroom dancing competition. I'm not saying I would swap being able to walk properly for cheap parking but a lot of people seem to have them that are far more able bodied than myself. I know of several cases were they have been given to obese people because their weight makes it hard for them to get about, I would have thought even the stupidest Dr would realise walking even less is not going to help matters? It does also seem rather bizarre that you can compete in the London Marathon as a disabled runner, run 26 miles then return to your car parked using a BB because you have difficulty walking 50m? The whole BB system is flawed, openly abused and almost impossible to enforce. Genuine users like yourself who deserve and use the badge properly are from what I can see sadly in the minority.

 

firstly I will apologise for not reading that the bb was photo side up, but I still think that if proof can be given that the BB is valid then the PCN should be dismissed.

I do not wish to get into a flame war over this, and I agree with you in some respect that some people do slip through the net and abuse their BB

but we do have restrictions on where we can park and only have a limited time to park, more and more towns have limited parking for disabled drivers as they are closing off the town centers.. Clacton, Ipswich and Colchester are three that I know of as I live nearby, disabled bays are few and far between and its getting harder to park anywhere near a town center Disabled parking bays in supermarkets are very limited and are often taken by mother and baby parkers because their allocated bays are full. Some pay and displays are not free especially if they are not council run and permit bays unless stated are not for disabled drivers unless they have a permit allocated to them, plus also these permits are not always known to disabled drivers and often pay for them unknowing that they can get them for free. I know this first hand.

[green_and_mean]

I was not trying to get into an argument either just trying to show that the 'perks' you get with a BB make the effort of displaying it properly well worth the effort.

Councils in you neck of the woods are obviously not very bb friendly as it takes a special traffic order to prohibit BB holders from using pay and display bays. The town centre in which I shop has made almost all the on street parking either BB or loading bays with other cars made to park in multi story car parks. In addition the borough I work in has unrestricted parking for BB holders (except where prohibited in the bb booklet) and does not use the clocks at all with car parks and permit bays free also.

The biggest problem for BB holders here is that there are so many (5000 in my town alone) that many park and go to work for the day occupying all the town centre bays, this means those that cannot genuinly walk far have to park in the car parks and walk.

I do not begrudge BB holders the benefits they get it just seems daft that a company director on £200,00 per annum can drive his Bentley into London congestion charge free and then park free all day saving at least another £5-10 a day whilst a low paid Health worker for example is forced to use public transport because of the cost of driving.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I was not trying to get into an argument either just trying to show that the 'perks' you get with a BB make the effort of displaying it properly well worth the effort.

Councils in you neck of the woods are obviously not very bb friendly as it takes a special traffic order to prohibit BB holders from using pay and display bays. The town centre in which I shop has made almost all the on street parking either BB or loading bays with other cars made to park in multi story car parks. In addition the borough I work in has unrestricted parking for BB holders (except where prohibited in the bb booklet) and does not use the clocks at all with car parks and permit bays free also.

The biggest problem for BB holders here is that there are so many (5000 in my town alone) that many park and go to work for the day occupying all the town centre bays, this means those that cannot genuinly walk far have to park in the car parks and walk.

I do not begrudge BB holders the benefits they get it just seems daft that a company director on £200,00 per annum can drive his Bentley into London congestion charge free and then park free all day saving at least another £5-10 a day whilst a low paid Health worker for example is forced to use public transport because of the cost of driving.

 

In London! Where? Or did you drop off a "0"?

[green_and_mean]

In London! Where? Or did you drop off a "0"?

 

You can tell I live in the suburbs I haven't driven into town for years its so much cheaper to hop on the train.