Good evening, I am asking for some advices for my friend of whether he should appeal or not to be put into the support group.

He recently received a letter from ESA to state that he is now in WRAG group after attending a Atos medical a month ago. He has severe pain over the whole body for couples years already. Have seen a lot of doctors and done numerous scans/MRI etc but still not yet know what is the cause. He on most of the time just lays on the bed all day as every inch he moves his body he has a lot of pain. I think he should obviously be put into the support group as he clearly has difficulty in walking more than 50m non-stop/without severe pain.

He's requested a copy of the medical record and statement of reason over the phone almost a month ago but not yet received any of them. He called the ESA department every week but just been told "a new copy of the document will be sent to him and he just have to wait for another week" again and again.

The problem right now is that the deadline for the appeal submission is on monday 16/07. He is not sure whether or not he should appeal to be put into the support group. Without the documents he does not know what the doctor have written about his disabilities,and what to write in the appeal form and how long he will be in the WRAG before needing another medical. And we have done some quick search on google and found out a lot of people who also have severe health problems been put into the WRAG group.

Any advice will be appreciated!! Thank you!!!

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add infor: ESA is income related and currently as far as we know my friend only meets the mobilising requirement of the stated support group criteria.

Does he meet the criteria for the support group? Now, walking has been replaced by mobilising.

Another key question is - is his ESA contribution based or income related? The new rules about ESA© exhausting after 12 months for those in the WRAG may be relevant, depending on his circumstances.

Thank you for your quick reply Antone. It says on his award letter page1 that " the assessment is based on how much the law says you need to live on. You have not paid, or been credited with, enough NIC for them to be used in this assessment." So I think it is income related.

Hi, Nystagmite!! First of all, thank you for your reply. Yes, I think he meets the mobilising requirement of the support group- which is the 50m walking part. But I think the walking is the only criteria he meets for the support group as far as I know.

Yes, that's right. Income based is for those who haven't paid enough national insurance contributions.

hi Nystagmite, Then do you think my friend should or should not appeal to be put into the support group since he only meets one criteria of the support group and he is currently on income related ESA. WE somehow really cannot make up our minds. Thank you in advance.

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Sorry I have to log off now as I have to get up at 4am to work tomorrow. AAny help/advice would be greatly appreciated in this matter!!! Good night.

He only needs to meet one criteria to be put in the support group.

He only needs to meet one criteria to be put in the support group.

Sorry I just very new to this website and not sure if I have managed to quote your post correctly. We right now know he meets one criteria. But without SOR and medical report we donot know what the doctor have written about his illness, Was the doctor fully aware his illness and still came to the conclusion he can be put into the WRAG?

Was the doctor making any false statement on the reports??

And my friend is very concern what will happen if he loses the appeal? Will his current entitlement for WRAG also gone? Can he withdraw the appeal if he thinks later that he just has no chance to win?

The main problem right now is that there is not much time left for the appeal submission. The deadline is just next week Monday.

I really have to log out now since I still have to work tomorrow. Thank you so much for your help so far!!!!!!!!!

Good night by now and I will try to reply as soon as I can when I have time to go onto the computer tomorrow.

We right now know he meets one criteria. But without SOR and medical report we donot know what the doctor have written about his illness, Was the doctor fully aware his illness and still came to the conclusion he can be put into the WRAG?

The decision is made by Decision Makers at the DWP, not by the ATOS doctor. Of course, the DM will usually act on the advice of the ATOS doctor, since they're not medical professionals. But they don't absolutely have to - they have discretion. So the mistake may lie there. It would be advantageous to see the medical report (known as form ESA85) but if he's not able to get hold of it he should not delay making an appeal. Simply provide whatever evidence is available that he meets the SG descriptor - it's possible to add further information at a later date.

And my friend is very concern what will happen if he loses the appeal? Will his current entitlement for WRAG also gone?

The tribunal can, theoretically, remove his entitlement altogether. Usually, though, if he lost the appeal he would simply remain in the WRAG. It's obviously not possible for us to predict how a tribunal would rule - usually they are more sympathetic to claimants than the DWP, but the total loss of his benefit is possible, though unlikely.

Can he withdraw the appeal if he thinks later that he just has no chance to win?

Yes. He would need to contact the Tribunals Service.

The main problem right now is that there is not much time left for the appeal submission. The deadline is just next week Monday.

He doesn't need to submit everything right away - as I said, it's possible to add more information to the submission later.

Hi, Nystagmite!! First of all, thank you for your reply. Yes, I think he meets the mobilising requirement of the support group- which is the 50m walking part. But I think the walking is the only criteria he meets for the support group as far as I know.

The mobilising test is carried out by the assessor when he/she calls you in from the waiting room to the assessment room. The distance will have already have been measured.

The things that they will be looking at will be how he walked that distance, the speed, did he have to stop, etc. Having completed that and generally the distance is about 20 metres they will assume that if he managed it OK, then he would have no problems with 200 metres.

Was he in a wheelchair?

What aids did he use?

Did he touch the door into the assessment room to hold it open or did he use the handle? Those little things will have been noted as well.

I get DLA - HRM due to the fact that I have medical evidence that proves that I cannot virtually walk more than 25 metres without having to stop because of pain and fatigue - yet ATOS assessed me for ESA as being quite capable of walking at least 200 metres with no problem.

That caused a massive problem with DLA afterwards, but that is another story.

The decision is made by Decision Makers at the DWP, not by the ATOS doctor. Of course, the DM will usually act on the advice of the ATOS doctor, since they're not medical professionals. But they don't absolutely have to - they have discretion. So the mistake may lie there. It would be advantageous to see the medical report (known as form ESA85) but if he's not able to get hold of it he should not delay making an appeal. Simply provide whatever evidence is available that he meets the SG descriptor - it's possible to add further information at a later date.

 

 

 

The tribunal can, theoretically, remove his entitlement altogether. Usually, though, if he lost the appeal he would simply remain in the WRAG. It's obviously not possible for us to predict how a tribunal would rule - usually they are more sympathetic to claimants than the DWP, but the total loss of his benefit is possible, though unlikely.

 

 

 

Yes. He would need to contact the Tribunals Service.

 

 

 

He doesn't need to submit everything right away - as I said, it's possible to add more information to the submission later.

Hello, Antone,

I am very sorry for the late reply! Thank you so much for all the information!!! They are all very helpful!!

The mobilising test is carried out by the assessor when he/she calls you in from the waiting room to the assessment room. The distance will have already have been measured.

The things that they will be looking at will be how he walked that distance, the speed, did he have to stop, etc. Having completed that and generally the distance is about 20 metres they will assume that if he managed it OK, then he would have no problems with 200 metres.

 

Was he in a wheelchair?

 

What aids did he use?

 

Did he touch the door into the assessment room to hold it open or did he use the handle? Those little things will have been noted as well.

 

I get DLA - HRM due to the fact that I have medical evidence that proves that I cannot virtually walk more than 25 metres without having to stop because of pain and fatigue - yet ATOS assessed me for ESA as being quite capable of walking at least 200 metres with no problem.

 

That caused a massive problem with DLA afterwards, but that is another story.

Hi, hensteeth!!

My friends was using a walking stick when he went to the medical. His son went with him together to assist him. He had to rely on his sons support and the walking stick to walk and because of the pain he has he had to stop very often while walking. He walked very slowly and because of this he and his son went to the centre 30minutes early just in case. He did not see any doctors in the waiting room, probably that's why the doctors think he can walk-the doctors might not know/see how he walked into the centre. However during the interview the doctor who examined him seemed very aware of his problems on legs and that is what bothering my friend as he thinks he will be put into the SG. My friend called the ESA department today again to ask for copies of both the statement of reason and the medical report as he might launch an appeal next week but been told to wait till the end of this week, then he can call again if still nothing turns up on Monday. Therefore right now he is not sure whether or not the doctor who examined him had written down the problems he has on his leg and forwarded to the decision marker and whether the decision to put him into the WRAG is a genius one.

As the deadline for appeal submission is just next week Monday. He clearly has no time to wait for the documents to come, so based on the information kindly provided by Antone he decides to launch an appeal on Monday first and then carry on to wait for the documents to arrive later. He will then make a final decision of whether or not to carry on to appeal when he has all the information in front of him. Since he only meets one criteria of the SG and knowing the appeal can take up quite a bit of days and scaring the stress he might encounter during the waiting, he right now would just like to have a look at the report first to see if it is really a "must" for him to wait for a year for an appeal.

My friend really wants me to say Thank you here to all of you for all the helps you guys given. He is very happy knowing that so many people out there are caring for him. Thank you!!!!

Since he only meets one criteria of the SG

That's all that he needs to meet. As long as one is met, it doesn't matter.

That's all that he needs to meet. As long as one is met, it doesn't matter.

Hi Nystagmite, Thank you!!!!!!

I will definitely let my friend know that. Thank you.