MBNA - CCA...... again..........

[RoryM]

Hi all,

 

Here's the story so far........

 

My Subject Access Request was delivered by recorded post to MBNA on 20/4/2009 and I received their response today (17/6/2009). I make that a total of 58 days, as opposed to the statutory 40 days. I submitted a complaint to the ICO on 11th June to highlight this breach.

 

In my original request I stated the following:

 

Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 in relation to Account Numbers 4129 xx xx 8059 and 4129 xx xx 1240. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about us pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

In today's response they have provided:

 

MBNA:

A copy of the signed credit card agreement / copy of application - poor quality! (Signed 24/1/200 by me, stamped by them 2/2/2000)

A copy of the executed agreement together with current terms and conditions

Account transaction history

 

They also go on to note:

"We appreciate the copy of the original agreement is not very clear in parts but it is the best copy we can provide. For avoidance of any doubt, all of the necessary and prescribed terms are included in the credit agreement. In addition, you will find terms are also set out in the copy of the current credit agreement we are providing you with, and are sufficient for the purposes of the Consumer credit Act."

 

A&L:

A copy of the executed agreement together with current terms and conditions

Account transaction history

 

They go on to note:

"A copy of the signed credit card application form and agreement is not available due to archive retrieval issues. Should we hold any correspondence for the accounts(s), in accordance with section 7 of the Data Protection Act, this will be forwarded separately within the 40 day time period"

 

So, my understanding is as follows:

 

Alliance and Leicester is pretty cut and dried - no signed agreement = unenforceable!! Am I right? - Does anyone have a good letter to get this one out the way, so I can focus on the other one?

 

If so, is there a proper form of words I should use to get this sorted out and avoid paying them any more money in the meantime?

 

MBNA - they seem a bit more confident that this one is enforceable, but one key issue is that over the years, they raised my limit a number of times without me requesting it, which I understand puts them on shaky ground, although they have not responded to this point from my original request (the same applies to A&L by the way!).

 

What are the key points I need to look for to crack this agreement and where should I look? I don't for instance see anything that specifies the amount of credit....... Has anyone taken MBNA on and won with an agreement from about the same period?

 

Does the fact that they have failed to comply with the 40 days mean anything like the 12 day limit if you put in a request under the CCA?

 

Your help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Having already gained some insight, what I need are:

 

1) the template for a letter to A&L stating (in appropriate legal pleasantries) that they can now spin on my finger for their money!

 

2) a solid definition of what constitutes a legally binding agreement with MBNA against the signed contract ..... and/or an indication of where they screwed up and I can exploit this to my benefit.

 

The "gotcha" is that the quality of what they sent me means that it just won't scan in a way that is useful to post here - the file sizes are either 7Mb per page to get anything close to decent resolution, or so grainy as to be useless - I'll keep trying to resolve this and will post the two pages later if I'm able......

[cerberusalert]

"We appreciate the copy of the original agreement is not very clear in parts but it is the best copy we can provide. For avoidance of any doubt, all of the necessary and prescribed terms are included in the credit agreement. In addition, you will find terms are also set out in the copy of the current credit agreement we are providing you with, and are sufficient for the purposes of the Consumer credit Act."

The agreement must be legible & the prescribed terms must be within the 'four corners' of the signed agreement. These must include; credit limit, repayment terms, %APR etc.

Alliance and Leicester is pretty cut and dried - no signed agreement = unenforceable!!

Yes

1) the template for a letter to A&L stating (in appropriate legal pleasantries) that they can now spin on my finger for their money!

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

[RoryM]

within the 'four corners' of the signed agreement.

 

Thank you Cerberus Alert!

 

If the Ts and Cs are on the flip-side of the page and not visible on the page that contains the signature - does that mean it's not within the four corners.......? What about if they refer out to external documents that are not part of the signed document.....?

 

What if the original was legible but the copy supplied is not......?

 

Apologies for more questions, but if I'm going to take them on, I'd rather be "watertight" from Day 1, as I'm sure you understand!

 

In terms of the link you sent me, this looks like a request under the CCA, rather than the DPA - not a problem, I can amend this information and the bits relating to 12 days, etc.

 

The key bit for me is "true copy of the executed agreement" what does that mean in plain English.....?

 

Again, more questions - apologies!

 

R/

[cerberusalert]

See; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

[RoryM]

I looked at that - it's an excellent document!!

 

It does, however, assume a level of legal knowledge which, if I had it, I probably wouldn't need to ask the questions I'm asking...... it's like being given a technical manual for an application that assumes I already know how to programme in that language......

 

I need something that assumes I don't know the ins and outs of the legal equivalent of HTML, C++, or whatever...........?

 

Don't think I'm being ungrateful - far from it, I just need a little more detail to kick-start me.

 

Cheers

 

R/

Edited June 18, 2009 by RoryM
grammar cock-ups