Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Parking a "SORN" vehicle on an unadopted road


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4307 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Is it legal to park a vehicle that is declared as off the road (currently on my drive) on an unadopted road or am I likely to face fines. I could do with my drive back!!

 

It depends on whether the public have access to the privately-owned road, whether the vehicle is immobilized - that is, is wheels prevented from turning - and whether there is an insurance policy on force relating to the vehicle.

 

Determining whether the public have access is trickier than might be thought; if pedestrians have access, it may be public. But it also depends on whether access is for purposes to do with the owners of the road.

 

This makes sense. Suppose, for example, a farmer owns some land, with a private road leading to a farm shop owned by the farmer. Members of the public visiting the shop will use the road, but I'd say that does not make it public for road law purposes. So you could park an uninsured vehicle there without committing an offence.

 

However, if the private road was used by pedestrians as a short-cut to a shop *not* owned by the farmer, that might be enough to make it public for road law purposes - and so vehicles parked there would need to be insured.

 

I expect you can find lots of cases and appeals on this subject, mainly brought by insurance companies attempting to avoid liability.

 

My understanding is that vehicles parked on a private road would not require a test certificate though ... admittedly I've not tried very hard to try to get to the bottom of that question.

 

I also seem to recall reading that if the vehicle were immobilised such that is impossible for the wheels to turn, insurance is not required if it is on a private road even if the public have access.

 

Tim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it legal to park a vehicle that is declared as off the road (currently on my drive) on an unadopted road or am I likely to face fines. I could do with my drive back!!

 

Whether the road is adopted or not is irrelevant.

 

You may not place a vehicle under SORN on the Public Highway. Who actually owns the highway is immaterial.

 

You can check with the Highway Authority (County Council or Unitary Authority) to see if you unadopted road is actually public hughway. If they confirm that it is not, then you may park the vehicle there under SORN rules

Link to post
Share on other sites

An unadopted road is exactly that......

 

Unadopted by the Highway Authority, so it is NOT a public highway.

 

My house in Wales is on an unadopted road, I have two SORN'd vehicles parked on this road, and the local Police have told me that there is no requirement for any Tax, MOT, or Insurance. PLUS, they say that the vehicles do not have to be immobilised, they also say I can even drive them along the road perfectly legally as long as I don't drive onto the PUBLIC highway at the end of the village.

Nil Illigitimus Carborundum

Link to post
Share on other sites

An unadopted road is exactly that......

 

Unadopted by the Highway Authority, so it is NOT a public highway.

 

 

No. If the road does not meet the minimum standards set by the local authority, they will not adopt it even if it is a public highway.

 

But if the public have unhindered access - eg if there is a public footpath along the road - then it is a public highway even if it is unadopted.

 

Actually, there's a thread on this site about this, titled "Tickets on an unadopted road".

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/22054-tickets-unadopted-road.html#post171838

 

Tim

Link to post
Share on other sites

But if the public have unhindered access - eg if there is a public footpath along the road - then it is a public highway even if it is unadopted.

 

 

Not necessarily. I live opposite a 'service road' to a primary school. It's tarmacced, pavements on each side and street lighting and has public access. The road is owned by the Education Dept of the local council, who maintain it, yet it is unadopted and not part of the public highway (I've written confirmation)

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 you will see that it makes mention of "public roads". If you then look at s. 62 it tells you what is a public road, namely "in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense".

 

So the best bet is to contact your local highways authority and check to see whether the road is maintainable at public expense.

 

You do still need insurance though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

My neighbour has SORN his car, but still uses it on the public road every day. It is almost three years since he last bought a tax disc. In fact, at the moment he has six cars parked in front of his house. The road, however, is unadopted, so he gets away with it. He calls himself a trader, but he never sells any of the cars - just drives them around. It is like living on a garage forecourt. :-x

Link to post
Share on other sites

My neighbour has SORN his car, but still uses it on the public road every day. It is almost three years since he last bought a tax disc. In fact, at the moment he has six cars parked in front of his house. The road, however, is unadopted, so he gets away with it. He calls himself a trader, but he never sells any of the cars - just drives them around. It is like living on a garage forecourt. :-x

 

Then why don't you report him? I WOULD!!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Already reported him three times to dvla, nothing has happened as yet. Thanks anyway for the advice.

 

Nothing will happen as the vehicles are legally parked off road as far as SORN is concerned. The DVLA or their agents NSL will not bother taking action which probably surveilance and require a RIPA authorisation to catch him using an untaxed vehicle on a public highway maintained at the public expense it is not worth the man hours or expense when there is easier prey for them to target.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing will happen as the vehicles are legally parked off road as far as SORN is concerned. The DVLA or their agents NSL will not bother taking action which probably surveilance and require a RIPA authorisation to catch him using an untaxed vehicle on a public highway maintained at the public expense it is not worth the man hours or expense when there is easier prey for them to target.

 

Did you not read his post properly? He said the car is SORNd but being used every day on a public road!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As pointed out above by POCA, the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 defines a 'public road' - but that is for VED (road tax) purposes.

 

Does the same definition apply for SORN?

 

What/where is the SORN legislation?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wish i could get ripa authorisation, :-x. Only today, low and behold yet another car is parked in front untaxed, just how big a fish do you have to be ???:cool:. Lets all just sorn are cars and drive them around then.:!:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wish i could get ripa authorisation, :-x. Only today, low and behold yet another car is parked in front untaxed, just how big a fish do you have to be ???:cool:. Lets all just sorn are cars and drive them around then.:!:

 

The DLVA do not as far as I am aware have the power to stop vehicles so even if they did stake out the location in the hope of catching him going on to the road all they could do is watch him drive away like you do. If you consider how many SORN vehicles there are it would not be possible to try and catch them used on the road they rely on spotting them parked or being stopped in random spot checks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...