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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Rolling tenancy - two month or one month notice period, help!


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Hello, hoping someone can help. We had a six month contract with an estate agent. In the contract (under Special Conditions) it states that once our six month tenancy has expired we put onto a rolling contract, this requires a two month notice period (not one month as is the case with the six month).

This is in the contract, and it is also in the "options" letter we received near the end of our six month contract period (which we did not sign). What is the legal situation here. Am I required to pay two months notice?

 

A lesser issue is that when we took up the tenancy the estate agent required of us that we PAID FOR OUR KEYS! Yet they want these back at the end of our tenancy? Are we not entitled to a refund for a something we paid for?

 

The first question is, of course, the most important. Would appreciate any help as leaving in one month is a far better situation than two months. Thank you.

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I've been advised that 1 month's notice is required if paying rent monthly on a periodic tenancy, and that nothing in the contract can modify this.

 

Check though that you have not got a 1 year contract with a 6 month break clause as the situation may be different till the year is up. I am not sure.

 

With regard to the keys you would have to check the contract. How much did they charge? And did you pay for the keys or pay for the services of some numpty to hand the keys to you?

 

Obviously the landlord will not wish you to keep the keys and you could get charged to change the locks if you don't return them. But if they are yours I would say you can do what you like to them before you return them (including damaging them).

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In the six month tenancy agreement, which has expired, (but am not on a rolling contract) it says as part of the First Schedule (under special conditions) that "that if you decide to vacate at the end of your six month fixed term, a minimum of one months written notice is required. After the initial fixed term tenants are required to give two months written notice, failure to do so will result in the deposit being retained in lieu of notice." The further letter requiring information as to what we intend to do now the six-month contract has expired stated that no reply to the letter constitutes acceptance that we are now on a periodic contract.

 

It turns out that the situation with the keys was that they did provide us with one set. But not provide another set of keys for me, the other housemate. I had to go to a locksmiths and pay for one. And they want it back. Which is understandable.

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Nothing in the contract can overrule statute.

 

The Protection from Eviction Act 1977 s5 (1) states that you only have to give four weeks notice. It must be in writing and, clarified by Laine v. Cadwallader (2001) 33 HLR 36, it must end at the end of a period in the tenancy (i.e. the day before the rent day).

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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I ought to have made it clear that I needed to know (a) the notice provisions and (b) whether the tenancy was granted for a fixed period to convert to periodic when the fixed period expires.

 

I am going to assume that (b) does not apply and that the tenancy agreement did not state that the tenancy was granted for "six months and then from month to month..." or words to that effect.

 

"that if you decide to vacate at the end of your six month fixed term, a minimum of one months written notice is required. After the initial fixed term tenants are required to give two months written notice, failure to do so will result in the deposit being retained in lieu of notice."

 

This is rank amateur drafting.

 

As to the red: A fixed term is a fixed term. It does not require notice to bring it to an end. The words are of no effect.

 

As to the green: At the time the tenancy was granted the statutory periodic tenancy to which the words apply did not exist. You cannot impose conditions in respect of a tenancy that does not exist. The words are of no effect.

 

As to the blue: If no notice is given, the tenancy continues. Since the tenancy continues, so does the obligation to pay rent. Therefore there is no need to provide for what happens if no notice is given. If the tenant moves out without giving notice and stops paying rent, the rent can be taken from the deposit.

 

As to the green and blue: Strictly interpreted, this imposes an obligation (though exactly when the obligation arsies is not made clear) to give notice even if the tenant does not want to leave, which is clearly a nonsense.

 

So, if you paid rent monthly and have a statutory and not a contractual periodic tenancy all you need to do is give a common law notice to quit, i.e. a notice ending the tenancy at the end of a complete month. Do not forget that the first month of the periodic tenancy started the day after the fixed term came to an end and that the subsequent months are calculated accordingly. The periods are NOT calculated according to when rent is paid.

 

The further letter requiring information as to what we intend to do now the six-month contract has expired stated that no reply to the letter constitutes acceptance that we are now on a periodic contract

 

You cannot create an agreement by default. In any event the letter was quite unnecessary - a statutory periodic tenancy had already arisen.

 

Amateurs!!!

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Nothing in the contract can overrule statute.

 

The Protection from Eviction Act 1977 s5 (1) states that you only have to give four weeks notice.

 

Not quite. The Act states that not less than four weeks' notice is required. If the contract or the common law requires a longer period of notice then the contract or common law prevails.

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  • 1 year later...

I was wondering if anyone can help me...ive been renting a house off my friend who has subsequently got herself in financial bother. Just before xmas she advised me that her and her husband were going to be selling the house, much to my surprise! i looked for somewhere else and consequently told her verbally i would be moving out at the end of february. She is now claiming that she doesnt remember me saying this and that she had told me i had to stay here til april 1st, i disagreed and now she is saying she wants 28 days notice written from me dated the second time i told her i would be out by end of feb which was 6th feb, this will mean that i am going to either lose my other house or have to pay rent for 2 house for 2 weeks. My contract (which was just an old tenancy agreement from a house i had before with a new front page added!) ran out in september last year and doesnt state any notice period at all. I pay my rent fortnightly would this mean i can give 2 weeks notice? For the duration of my tenancy she has been in breach of contract by not having the central heating fixed and leaving me to rely on a gas fire heating the whole house with a six year old daughter living with me? Please help!

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Have you got a signed tenancy agreement? When did you tell her you would be leaving at the end of Feb? When did you move in, and for what fixed term?

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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I told her in january that i had somewhere i can move into and that it would be at the end of feb, The signed tenancy was from 9th march 09 to 9th sept 09 as it was for 6 months, but after reading the contract it has no notice period in it at all.

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Will discuss this on the thread youve created.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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