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    • Thanks FTMDave, I like the cut of your jib - I'll go with that and obtain proof of postage. Encouraging that NPE have never followed through and seem to blowing hot air, let's see where they go after this   Regards
    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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First Direct & Final Demand


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We sent the usual letter to First Direct requesting a copy of our agreement, a copy of the default notice & any deed of assignment & have had a copy of a "Final Demand" sent although nothing else.

 

Just wanted some advice because the Final Demand doesn't say Default on it & want to know if it is "legal"

 

It says the following & is dated 13/01/05

 

"Dear Sir

 

FINAL DEMAND

 

Despite our previous correspondence concerning your debt, we have to date received no satisfactory response.

We now DEMAND immediate repayment in the sum of £*****. This amount is made up as follows:-

Account number Balance Credit/Debit

1234567899 £****** Dr

 

The outstanding balance of £***** will have further interest added on the same basis as presently applies until the date of repayment.

 

YOU HAVE SEVEN DAYS TO REPAY IN FULL or let us have satisfactory proposals for repayment by instalments or otherwise. If immediate repayment in full cannot be made, the enclosed Financial Statement must be completed & returned.

 

If you fail to comply with this demand DEBT COLLECTORS or SOLICITORS will be instructed.

Details of your default including your name and address will be given to the CREDIT REFERENCE AGENCIES named below if we have still not received a satisfactory response from you within 28 days. Credit Reference Agencies supply information to lenders in order to establish an individuals credit history quickly & simply.Lenders then use this information to help decide whether or not to accept applications for credit from their customers. If details of your default are given to Credit Reference Agencies this may make it more difficult to obtain credit elsewhere in the future"

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Well yes. Part of the stipulation of the CCA is that the payment must be made.

And without the £1, the Company does not have to respond to your request.

So to stop everything in its tracks, you will need to send another CCA request

including the £1. If they had the original agreement, they would have sent it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What they've sent you doesn't comply with Part VII of the CCA 1974, so any Default/Termination is unlawful.

 

Follow the advice given, as you can't query this without requesting a copy of the agreement. Templates are available in the library if you need them.

 

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  • 1 month later...

I sent a letter to First Direct on 26th Nov enclosing a postal order requesting:-

  1. You must supply true copy of agreement etc
  2. You must supply a true & certified copy of the orig default notice not a Final Demand as prev sent.
  3. Any deed of assisnment if the debt was sold on.

Now received a reply -

"Please find enclosed your postal order along with copies of account opening forms for your accounts (single loan account & joint bank account). There is no legal requirement for us to hold copies of Default Notices so I have been unable to enclose a copy per your request.

 

The 1st Account you held (joint bank account) was not a consumer Credit Act regulated product,therefore no Default Notice is required.

 

As we received no satisfactory response to the Final Demand your accounts were passed to Metropolitan Collection Services and an entry was made on your credit file. The final Demand is our notice to register adviser information on your credit file and satisfies our legal obligations beforepassong accounts to a Debt Collection Agency.

 

Once your account is paid in full this is reflected on your credit file, which is updated.

 

No Deed of assignment is required as Metropolitan Collection Services are part of HSBC group.

 

I trust this clarifies the position.....blah,blah!!"

 

Please advise what action I now need to take - I am feeling a little lost amongst all the paperwork:confused:

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Well, "account opening forms" sounds like an application form to me!

 

Can you scan/post up what they've sent you? (Removing personal information of course)

 

They are wrong about the bank account - read here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/31515-ccas-overdrafts.html?highlight=overdrafts

 

then this post;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/125120-wescot-credit-services-advice.html#post1307682

 

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If you open a photobucket account and upload it to there you can the insert the links or images into posts. Have a read here for further instructions (towards the end of the guide) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Here's a little more on Coutts & Co v Gabriel Oscar Alan Sebestyen 2005 which outlines the legal position on the Act and overdrafts http://www.shlegal.com/Asp/uploadedF...it_12_05. pdf page 5

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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The account forms are application forms and bear no relation to the overdraft agreement. Without any documentation as outlined in the OFT Determination, they can't rely on that to say they don't need to comply with the CCA - the application forms don't contain the prescribed terms, (credit limit, repayments and interest rates) so the overdraft will be unenforceable as a result under s.127(3) CCA 1974. (When will these Banks learn how to comply?)

 

The loan agreements look ok as it has the prescribed terms. (above) The APR isn't right, but works out at 6.67%, which is within the tolerance allowed under the regulations;

 

Permissible tolerances in disclosure of the APR

1A. For the purposes of these Regulations, it shall be sufficient compliance with the requirement to show the APR if there is included in the document -

 

(1) a rate which exceed the APR by not more than one; or

 

(2) a rate which falls short of the APR by not more than 0.1; or

 

(3) in a case to which either of paragraphs 2 or 3 below applies, a rate determined in accordance with the paragraph or such of them as apply to that case.".

 

What is the date of your signature? If it's after the date printed on the agreement, that could make this a prospective agreement, so is void under s.59; (the fact the signature is printed and predated adds weight to this argument)

 

59.—(1) An agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to

enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement

 

IMHO, this agreement is properly executed. If you want to challenge it, you will have to do so based on the fact they can't provide any evidence of the original Default Notice, so can't prove that they have Defaulted the account correctly.

 

Also, do you know if they have applied charges to the Loan account? This would invalidate any Default Notice, unless they can prove their charges are lawful, (which they can't) as the Default amount includes those charges;

 

Failure of a Default Notice or a Termination Notice to be accurate not only invalidates such Notice, (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co NLD 14 July 1998) but is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the Court enforcing any alleged debt, (Wilson v First County Trust, Wilson v Robertsons (London) Ltd [2006] EWCA Civ 1088, Wilson v Pawnbrokers [2005] EWCA Civ 147) but would also give the Claimant a claim for damages in the sum of £1,000. (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119)
  • Haha 1

 

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Thanks for your speedy & indepth response.

 

The loan agreement WAS dated the day after their date so I reckon this may make it void under S59.

 

Will have a look at whether any charges have been added to the loan account.

 

Are there any templates I can use for my reply for either the bank a/c or loan?

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There won't be any templates for this, as each case has it's own specific merits and won't fit a template as such.

 

I'd avoid discussing the enforceability of the loan agreement, as you don't want to point out the obvious - plus this could help them if they decide to enforce against you later.

 

Stick to the Default Notice issue, IMHO, so start by writing back telling them they do have an obligation to prove they have Defaulted you within the prescribed process of the Act - if they haven't, suggest that they remove the Default from your credit file, as unsubstantiated.

 

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