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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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02 Unauthorised transactions


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Got an o2 mobile on contract and up until October i paid my bill on line. However October the 10th i set up a direct debit. This was using a brand new bank card with a different security (last 3 digits on back of card) number than my old card. O2 are the only company to have those details.

 

My first direct debit came out the begiinning of November and thats fine and this states direct debit on my bank statement.

However a further 2 payments have come out from O2 for the sum of £30 each that has nothing to do with my mobile phone payment as they do not show on mobile phone account.

 

On the statement it says "prep" which from what i believe its pre payment and looks like someone is topping their phone up with my bank details. As they are the only ones to have my details and since its since the direct debit was set up im inclined to believe it someone in o2.

 

I have cancelled my bank card and informed the fraud department in my bank but o2 are giving me the run around. Someone was supposed to phone me back after i faxed off my bank statement. They never rang. I have been passed backwards and fowards to various departments. I eventually got told i needed a 'ged number' from my bank so o2 can trace the transaction. I got told its traced back to my account (meaning mobile account). Dont see how someone topping their phone using my bank details is anywhere connected with my mobile account.

 

Anyway promised they would contact me back but yet again they havnt. It seems they are not taking this serious enough after all its theft and fraud.

 

Anyone give me any advice on whati should do. Want to ring them tomorrow and ask for full refund as im fed up of waiting.Thinking of threatening them with a letter to OFCOM and cancelling my contract. Anything or anyone else i can use to help me get my money back.

 

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post

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Hey, I can't answer for sure on O2's procedures but I can give an idea of how other networks would handle this.

 

If you contact your bank to advise that you did not authorise these payments, your bank should be able to reclaim this money from the network and put it back in to your bank account (just make sure that you are positive these payments have not been made to your O2 account as this process flags up on the account that it has been accused of fraud).

 

Then, I would hope O2 should be able to search for the payment details using simply your bank card details (again, I must reiterate that I do not know for sure if O2 can do this, but I know T-Mobile do as I work there and do it often myself, it's not that hard) so they can find the account which your card has been used on fraudulently - they can then pass these details on to their fraud dept so they have more info to work with. Just bear in mind that there is a lot of fraud happening these days so there could be a wee bit of a backlog, but someone at O2 should be able to give you a rough timescale, I would think.

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Thanks you have made more sense than anyone i have spoken to in the last week.

 

My bank say they are investigating it. I am 100% certain i have not made the transactions.

Using a ged number o2 have said they have traced the transaction back to my account and now im waiting for someone to get back to me from o2.

 

My account is a contract and dont see how topping up a phone can be traced back to my contract account as no such payments are recorded on my contract account.

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Again, I can't be definitely sure re O2 as I have no idea of O2's price plans, but you don't have a price plan which is half contract and half payg? (T-Mobile do one of these, so just checking).

 

Ask O2 why they cannot just do a search using you bank card number to do a search as this should bring up a list of all accounts which your card has been used on. I do these at my work and it only takes 3 mins max, and it can bring up suprises ie your card being used on 5 accounts or something.

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No funny price plan. Plain contract. I used to pay online then decided to pay by dd. Its a brand new card so its only o2 who have that cards details and no other company.

 

I will ask them if they eventually get back to me. Thanks

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I had set up a direct debit on the 10th October to pay for my phone bill as before hand i paid it online. The first direct debit payment came out on the 2nd November. This is confirmed as correct.

 

However on the 25th October and 5th November and not connected to the direct debit, a payment each of £30 came out as a card payment with "prep" on the statement.

 

So someone has used my bank details to top up their mobile phone.

The only company to have these details are o2, and the only time i gave these details are when i set up the direct debit.

 

My take is a member of 02 has used my details or they have passed them on to someone else (whether purposely or accidental) who is using my details.

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I've still not got it. Who/when did you give your CARD details to? And why was there any requirement or necessity to do so?

 

Are you saying your earlier payments (that is PRIOR to creating the DD) you had given them your card details to pay your bill?

 

You see, to set up a Direct Debit, NO card details are ever requested - only your Account Number and Sort code. Anything else, and it isn't a DD!

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Ahh i get you now. Sorry i should of made myself clearer.

 

Ok the story

 

The 10th October i recieved a call from 02 on my mobile saying they have not recieved my payment as i pay it online and sometimes forget so i was late paying it. So i made a card payment over the phone using my brand new card. This payment went through ok so must have been o2 and not someone trying to get hold of my details. However i did think it was funny them ringing as they have never done this before.

So after i had paid my bill i then requested that i set up a direct debit so in future i would not be late paying my bill.

 

That i thought would be the end of it.

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Hey, here's a couple quick ways for you to check for yourself if the payments were made toward your own account. Firstly, assuming that you have made all of your other payments on time, if two extra payments of £30 have been made to your account then you should either be £60 in credit, or your bill following these payments should already have had £60 paid towards it (which should show on the bill). I would imagine you would be able to find this out either on your bills (which usually show payments over past month) or online on O2's website if they have a bit where you can sign up to view your account online.

 

Technically, "recurring card payments" can be set up whereby the network just takes the payment from your card each month without you having to call them (much in the same manner as a direct debit) but owing to the fact that you had to actually make the payment yourself each month via the website it does not sound like this is what has happened. Also, by setting up a direct debit, had this been the situation in the past it would have had to be cancelled and changed to a direct debit payment.

 

Did the person who called you from O2 ask you security questions? And do O2 have a record of anyone from O2 calling you? Otherwise it may not actually have been O2 who you spoke to. I know you say the payment went through successfully so it must have been them, but that is only assuming that you did forget to pay that month - if you had already paid then there would be a successful payment on your account.

 

Furthermore, it could be possible that the original card payment which you made was accidentally taken twice (if it was for £30) - sometimes computer glitches happen - I would ask O2 to double check this. It should be easy for them to check - they just have to look on their computer and they should have a list of payments made on the account.

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