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    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hello,

 

Stumbled apon this site via google, I have quite a list I could use some advice on, i'll try to be as clear as possible.

 

First off I work for a council, in a school, due to staff cuts my position has been subject to a skills audit resulting to my colleague being made redundant.

 

As a final hurrah before leaving my colleague obtained various bits of information from our headteachers documents circulated them to the press. He was promptly arrested and has confessed.

 

As a two-man IT department I was initially asked not to come in for the first day after the weekend this happened, the site was closed due to the nature of the information and I.T. systems investigated, I was then told to take the rest of the week off as the network was still down and i would not be able to complete my daily duties due to the investigation (I know this investigation was not ongoing atleast on site after the first day due to information from other staff).

 

After the first week I was told I could come back to work, my line manager provided with new keys to our office and told our support guys would inform me of logins etc in due course, two hours later I was summoned to the front office and informed I was being suspended.

 

The grounds for suspension were that due to my close working relationship with the offending colleague, and the fact that all administrator logins were shared, I posed a security risk. I was also informed the found items on my PC which caused concern. I was escorted to my office which I was asked to clear of my belongings. I was not given a copy of our grevience policy or any relating documents.

 

UNISON rep was called and I was informed they were aware of the situation having been contacted by my colleague and the head of HR, he assured me this was a precautionary measure and that someone would be available to attend any meetings.

 

3 weeks on I have been asked to attend an off site meeting to be interviewed about the above.

 

 

I have a number of concerns about this:

  • The meeting is outside of my normal working hours, I work 0800-1600, meeting it at 1600 and some distance from my place of work.
  • I know exactly what has happened due to my colleague informing me after his arrest, this information was disclosed to my employer shortly after i was told. I feel any answers I give in my interview may be compromised by this knowledge, before being told I knew nothing.
  • I am currently off work sick with depression, my employment issues are contributing but not the primary reason for this, I have been signed by my GP. I am in no fit state yet to attend the interview.
  • I have not been informed what has been found or what I am suspected of doing therefore have had no time to prepare answers.

All administrator logins were shared between the two Technicians, as are workstations in the office i am concerned that anything he has done may be attributed me.

 

We had been working without an IT manager for over a year and had no guidance on security, best practices etc. In a previous annual appraisal I raised 7 pages worth of concerns to the head to which I was told "we employ you to have the answers to those, but your not responsible" this is documented in my staff file. We were only recently (2-3 weeks) given an Acceptable ICT Use Policy, due to issues mainly relating to how we apply this to other staff we had not signed this document and were waiting to meet with line manager to discuss.

 

Two further issues;

 

As an amateur photographer I purchased an excess portfolio folder from our technology department, then filled it with images, including some of my children, when being asked to remove my stuff from the office this portfolio was seized due to the images "possibly" being printed at work - there is no facility for this, although I have no receitps for their external printing. I am concerned with having images of my kids being in the possetion of unknown others. One contact has advised me to formally request this item back as their grounds are unreasonable and outside of the scope of the investigation, if not returned; assume they wish to purchase the images and invoice them accordingly, this made me lol.

 

Further more during this period of suspension applications are being received for the IT manager position (newly created in the new structure). The deadline for the applications was originally 07.06.10, I was informed by a member of the admin team that this had been extended to 11.06.10 due to technical problems with the school website causing application forms not to be available. I forwarded my application special delivery and it was received before the 11.06.10 deadline. I have now received a letter stating that as me application was received after the 07.06.10 deadline it was not considered. How can I approach this? I know of one other applicant who was informed via email by the same admin team member of the 11.06.10 date, Im hoping he kept the message, although im not sure yet.

 

Thanks in advance, apologies for the post length.

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Hello and welcome to CAG. I'm sorry to hear about all your problems. It's certainly complicated, isn't it?

 

I expect the others will be along to comment later and I will have a look later if I have time.

 

For now though, I have a vague recollection that you may not be required to attend a meeting while you're signed off sick. Hopefully someone will comment.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello,

 

Stumbled apon this site via google, I have quite a list I could use some advice on, i'll try to be as clear as possible.

 

First off I work for a council, in a school, due to staff cuts my position has been subject to a skills audit resulting to my colleague being made redundant.

 

As a final hurrah before leaving my colleague obtained various bits of information from our headteachers documents circulated them to the press. He was promptly arrested and has confessed.

 

As a two-man IT department I was initially asked not to come in for the first day after the weekend this happened, the site was closed due to the nature of the information and I.T. systems investigated, I was then told to take the rest of the week off as the network was still down and i would not be able to complete my daily duties due to the investigation (I know this investigation was not ongoing atleast on site after the first day due to information from other staff).

 

After the first week I was told I could come back to work, my line manager provided with new keys to our office and told our support guys would inform me of logins etc in due course, two hours later I was summoned to the front office and informed I was being suspended.

 

The grounds for suspension were that due to my close working relationship with the offending colleague, and the fact that all administrator logins were shared, I posed a security risk. I was also informed the found items on my PC which caused concern. I was escorted to my office which I was asked to clear of my belongings. I was not given a copy of our grevience policy or any relating documents.

 

In what way a 'security risk'? Surely with new login names and passwords any such 'risk' would be eliminated? Have you not been told (basically if without going into details) what type of material on the PC warranted further investigation. Presumably the suspension and reasons for it have been confirmed in writing?

 

UNISON rep was called and I was informed they were aware of the situation having been contacted by my colleague and the head of HR, he assured me this was a precautionary measure and that someone would be available to attend any meetings.

 

3 weeks on I have been asked to attend an off site meeting to be interviewed about the above.

 

Have they given any more specific details about the nature of the allegation?

 

I have a number of concerns about this:

  • The meeting is outside of my normal working hours, I work 0800-1600, meeting it at 1600 and some distance from my place of work.
  • I know exactly what has happened due to my colleague informing me after his arrest, this information was disclosed to my employer shortly after i was told. I feel any answers I give in my interview may be compromised by this knowledge, before being told I knew nothing.
  • I am currently off work sick with depression, my employment issues are contributing but not the primary reason for this, I have been signed by my GP. I am in no fit state yet to attend the interview.
  • I have not been informed what has been found or what I am suspected of doing therefore have had no time to prepare answers.

An investigatory meeting is slightly different to a disciplinary hearing as it seeks to determine whether a case warrants the disciplinary process, however you should have some information as to what is being investigated. If this is not provided then you cannot answer questions during the meeting which you have had insufficient time to consider. Simply say that you believe something to be incorrect but need more time/details in order to be able to answer. If necessary you can ask for the meeting to be adjourned.

 

You cannot be forced to attend if you are off sick, and it would be reasonable to ask for an alternative date, however as procedures have to follow a reasonable timetable, be aware that they can hold the investigation in your absence (and similarly any disciplinary hearings which may follow).

 

If the meeting is scheduled outside of your normal working hours and an unreasonable distance away, then you should be able to ask for an alternative location and time.

 

All administrator logins were shared between the two Technicians, as are workstations in the office i am concerned that anything he has done may be attributed me.

An investigation should look at that possibility with all available evidence. If the policy of shared logins makes that impossible, then it will not be correct to attribute wrongdoings to a specific user. Times and dates of documents may be relevant as if you can definitely exclude yourself from one activity this will add weight to the 'it wasn't me, it was him' argument.

 

We had been working without an IT manager for over a year and had no guidance on security, best practices etc. In a previous annual appraisal I raised 7 pages worth of concerns to the head to which I was told "we employ you to have the answers to those, but your not responsible" this is documented in my staff file. We were only recently (2-3 weeks) given an Acceptable ICT Use Policy, due to issues mainly relating to how we apply this to other staff we had not signed this document and were waiting to meet with line manager to discuss.

 

Supporting evidence to aid the investigation

 

Two further issues;

 

As an amateur photographer I purchased an excess portfolio folder from our technology department, then filled it with images, including some of my children, when being asked to remove my stuff from the office this portfolio was seized due to the images "possibly" being printed at work - there is no facility for this, although I have no receitps for their external printing. I am concerned with having images of my kids being in the possetion of unknown others. One contact has advised me to formally request this item back as their grounds are unreasonable and outside of the scope of the investigation, if not returned; assume they wish to purchase the images and invoice them accordingly, this made me lol.

 

They may argue that this material warrabted investigation due to the folder containing images of children - awful I know, but probably necessary in today's climate - the images may well be yours but they are stored on a school facility. This should only be retained for as long as necessary though and you can make a reasonable request for the material to be returned once it is established that it is your property and of no importance to the investigation.

 

Further more during this period of suspension applications are being received for the IT manager position (newly created in the new structure). The deadline for the applications was originally 07.06.10, I was informed by a member of the admin team that this had been extended to 11.06.10 due to technical problems with the school website causing application forms not to be available. I forwarded my application special delivery and it was received before the 11.06.10 deadline. I have now received a letter stating that as me application was received after the 07.06.10 deadline it was not considered. How can I approach this? I know of one other applicant who was informed via email by the same admin team member of the 11.06.10 date, Im hoping he kept the message, although im not sure yet.

 

You need to complain about being given misleading information giving the reasons why and stating how you believed that the deadline was extended. Without evidence this may be difficult.

 

Thanks in advance, apologies for the post length.

 

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