More Problems with Moorcroft - Advice Please

[Sidewinder]

I am in now in serious need of some more help!!

 

As a recap....I had a debt from a credit card which I was paying by Standing Order without fail for almost 10 years. It had been to CCJ and I had been paying at£10 a month. In a review of long standing debts the bank passed the debt to Moorcroft for collection. There the fun started

 

Moorcroft took 3 months to send a payment book despite me writing and asking for one. I believe that I also enclosed a payment with one letter. When the payment book arrived it stated that I had agreed to £20 a month so I wrote again (and sent an e mail) denying such an agreement and asking for details of when I was supposed to have 'agreed' to increase payments. No response was forthcoming so I have carried on paying £10 following previous confirmation from others on this site that Moorcroft had no legal authority to just increase the amount.

 

I have now just had an extremely condescending girl on the phone insisting that I had agreed £20, denying ever having received my letter and talking over me throughout. She claims that I have missed payments (which I did as I was away but had paid double in the previous month in anticipation of this). She claimed to be from the pre-court division (yes I know - that is a scare tactic) and basically said that Moorcroft can increase payments as they wish and that they increased them from £10 to £20 as I didn't pay between October when the debt was passed to them and January when I received the payment book. As I knew their address it was apparently my responsibility to send them money. When I suggested that they had no legal authority to increase payments, she said that they can do as they like as they are responsible for collecting the debt. She then threatened me with court action and bailiffs, and I repeated that they could not do this as I had maintained payments under a court order. Mistake - she did not know that the bank had already got a CCJ under the account and said that she could now just get a warrant of execution under that order. I disputed this and said that I did not believe that they could as they didn't own the debt and that it would be for the original creditor to do so but she insisted that as Moorcroft have full authority to collect they can do what they like and would now be taking enforcement action as I have failed to pay to the terms of the CCJ.

As the conversation was going nowhere ("but you have missed payments" "No I haven't") I referred to yet another previous letter where I have stated that I will refuse to deal with them on the phone) and was told that Moorcroft do not have to accept a request to cease telephone contact and that they would continue to communicate in this way. I said that I believed this to be an offence but was told again that they can legally continue to phone me (of course I am not obliged to answer and wouldn't have done if my youngest hadn't answered it for me). Sadly I lost my cool at that point and terminated the call.

 

Question is, what exactly can Moorcroft do and what course of action should I take? I am seriously wound up by this woman's attitude and tone, but am worried about what action, if any they can take. If the bank got a CCJ ten years ago, and I paid them to terms, can Moorcroft now execute a warrant under that Judgement? Moorcroft refused to answer whether they have purchased the debt or are just collecting on it - does that make a difference? I strongly disputed the amount of the debt at the time as it was largely made up of charges - naturally I can't dispute that now as I have accepted the situation by paying them - but would there be any mileage in doing a CCA request to the bank even after all this time?

 

Should I offer to pay what they believe the arrears to be? I believe that I am up to date with payments but with cheque stubs all 'filed' in various places it is difficult to tie up exactly what was paid and when. IF I am in arrears it would only be by around £10 or £20 - would a court go for enforcement on that basis. I guess that I could suspend any warrant issued but that would cost more than the arrears to do. Also, am I entitled to refuse to deal with this over the phone?

 

Finally (for now), what is the likelihood of Moorcroft now registering adverse information with the CRAs? The woman's attitude suggests that they will now try to be as difficult as possible. I have spent the last few years trying to clear up my credit history and for the last few months have finally had a clear file which I need to keep that way. Moorcroft now insist that I have defaulted on a court order (despite not knowing that I had one until I told her) and they are going to take action in relation to my defaulting. Can they? If so, what can I do to avoid it as I really don't want another six years of unfairly adverse credit information.

 

Help please!

 

Thanks

[Robdblynd]

My OH had a similar situation with Capquest, the loan company sold his file after they had received a CCJ on the account and he paid it regularly.

 

Recently he had a letter from Capquest demanding payment in full, he contacted the court and was told that after a CCJ has been granted the OC should not sell on the debt to anyone else and as long as agreed payments had been met, in full and on time, it should not have been sold.

[pmhcfc]

My OH had a similar situation with Capquest, the loan company sold his file after they had received a CCJ on the account and he paid it regularly.

 

Recently he had a letter from Capquest demanding payment in full, he contacted the court and was told that after a CCJ has been granted the OC should not sell on the debt to anyone else and as long as agreed payments had been met, in full and on time, it should not have been sold.

 

And why not write to them and ask them for a statement of account, they have to provide you with this.

[Sidewinder]

he contacted the court and was told that after a CCJ has been granted the OC should not sell on the debt to anyone else and as long as agreed payments had been met, in full and on time, it should not have been sold.

 

When I was paying the OC I had no gap in payments whatsoever, until I changed my banking arrangements and paid by cheque with a letter to say that the SO would resume immediately. Does that mean the OC were not entitled to transfer collection to Moorcroft as the account was not in arrears? They told me that they were having a 'review' of long standing small accounts and were passing it to a DCA on that basis. It is now several months later and I would far prefer dealing with the OC but can I insist on this on any legal basis?

 

Moorcroft will not confirm whether they have bought the debt or not, just that they have 'full legal authority for enforcement'. Did your OH manage to get his account moved back to the OC?

 

Moorcroft have said that they will send me a statement to prove that I am in arrears, so I will try to cross-reference my payments with their statements. Already though I have found that they have moved the goalposts. I have a letter from them dated 31st January (when they sent the payment book) stating that they had 'agreed' to my paying £10 per month on a starting balance of £1027 with payments to be made by 28th of each month, first payment due by 28th February. That means that if I now owe £967 then they must have recorded 6 payments to the account which at the very most means that one month has gone astray, yet last night's phone call was about me being in default on payments from October to January and three months between January and September. She told me that it was up to me to prove that payments were being made to terms.

 

Would you suggest that I write with a copy of their own letter, stating the above as the proof that this woman said I would need to provide? I would also enclose the 'missing' payment if that is enough to shut them up?

 

Fundamentally though I don't wish to deal with these cowboys. What can I do?

[Sidewinder]

Apparently they have phoned me again at home today

 

I 'must' call them back apparently. I wouldn't normally bother, but in the light of last night's call should I ring and read them the 'proof' that I have that they are in the wrong?

[Jason Toulmin]

Hi sidewinder, sorry to hear about your situation.

 

This might sound like a daft question but have you sent all of your mail by recorded delivery and have you got copies of all correspondence, yours and theirs? Also, a statemt of account as pmhcfc has mentioned is definately something you should be requesting, BY POST!!

 

If you have not made an agreement to change your payments and the payments were agreed by CCJ then that is that, which is the whole idea of going to court. They would have to prove that you made an agreement which they obviously cant do as there is nothing to produce.

 

Also, I now have a strict policy to never ever speak to a DCA, I stick to it avidly as these people are trained to harass and upset you, plus you will probably say something you regret and then look back and say, "damn, wish I had/hadnt said that!!". Corresponding via the written word will take all of that away. I have written letters and re-written them 4 times until I am happy, you cannot do that on the phone and anything they send to you in writing is your PROOF of their behaviour as a DCA.

 

I have been very rattled by a DCA myself, but, and its a big but, I will NOT BE HARASSED. I will not have someone pushing me over the phone and I will decide what to do after thinking hard, researching a bit and without doubt coming on here and asking advice, only then will I write to them.

 

Once you have opened a dialogue via writing and only writing, see how much they threaten you, I bet it is nowhere near as much as on the phone and if it was, PROOF is in your hands.

[Allwood]

If there is a CJJ then and the agreement was for £10.00 pm then write to the court and tell that you are being hassle by the DCA and now they want £20.00 pm this will get the DCA in a lot of bother.

[Robdblynd]

Wanting a definitive answer to the question of whether a debt which is subject to a CCJ could be actioned by a DCA I contacted HM Courts Service for an answer.

 

This is the main crux of what their respose said

 

If the Judgment came from the county or High Courts they will need to be enforced by the courts. If the CCJ came from the Magistrates' these are given to 3 firms of certificated Bailiffs.

They ask that I let them have more information so they can investigate further.

Drop them an email telling them everything and see what they say.

[email protected]

They answered my query within a couple of hours.

[Sidewinder]

Thanks for the help

 

Feeling a little more relaxed about it now having found their letter agreeing to £10 per month to commence 28th February NOT £20 per month commencing October 2006 as she was insisting - as far as I am concerned I could produce that as proof that they are lying in an attempt to lead me into something I don't want.

 

I am just composing a letter now to counter what I was told on the phone last night and will not be ringing them back as they requested. I am enclosing a copy of their letter agreeing payment terms, and also a copy of 2 auto-reply e mails which I got confirming requests which I had made for a statement of what was owed, and a means of payment back in October last year to which they did not respond. I may be able to find a hard copy of the letter I wrote in December but I don't think I have the tracking details now although it was sent Recorded. I probably filed that piece of paper when they confirmed my offer in writing at the end of January. I do have their letters stating that I am in arrears as I haven't paid £20 - as is the norm they are all from the mystical Pre-Court Division. Interesting that they always claim to be phoning from the Pre-Court Division as well, and always seem to be phoning after their 'Solicitor' has been looking at the case and is about to issue proceedings

 

Even though I believe that they have still lost one payment somewhere, I can't prove it easily, so will enclose £10 which will on their system surely then have my payments up to date? I still have the question though as to whether even being £10 behind could permit them to have a Warrant issued for default? I may well do as suggested and let the Court know the facts (the CCJ was 10+ years ago - how can I do this if I can't find the Judgement Order though?)

 

I don't normally get this wound up as I can be as sarcastic as anybody on the phone, but I was shaking with anger last night and started to lose composure. I would love to be able to shout back with authority on what they can and can't do, but at that moment much of what I have learned from the good people on here deserted me and I just kept repeating that they had no authority to do what they were threatening....then wondered who was right and who was wrong!

[Sidewinder]

Wanting a definitive answer to the question of whether a debt which is subject to a CCJ could be actioned by a DCA I contacted HM Courts Service for an answer.

 

This is the main crux of what their respose said

 

If the Judgment came from the county or High Courts they will need to be enforced by the courts. If the CCJ came from the Magistrates' these are given to 3 firms of certificated Bailiffs.

 

They ask that I let them have more information so they can investigate further.

 

Drop them an email telling them everything and see what they say.

 

[email protected]

 

They answered my query within a couple of hours.

 

Excellent advice - thanks for that and I will certainly e mail them.

[Sidewinder]

No response as yet to the letter, and the response from the Courts Service was somewhat woolly. Suggested I speak to CAB or enquire with TS as to whether the DCA was reputable!

 

From researching, I understand that Morecrud could only take action if they have the correct Deed of Assigment from BoS. How can I find that information out? If they haven't had the ownership of the debt assigned to them then they would have to pass it back to BoS to take any legal action - correct? If ownership has been assigned to the DCA, then why were they unaware that the debt was subject to a long-standing CCJ until I told them?

 

If I was to send a SAR to Moorcroft, would that provide any answers? Could I not also CCA them, or would the fact that it is a CCJ and I have been paying negate the need for them to prove the debt through that means?

 

Can Moorcroft register adverse information with a CRA? Once again, if they have not been assigned the debt, can they legally do this? My file is clear (this CCJ dropped off it a long time ago) and I will be pretty miserable if this shower are able to make it dirty again! They keep bandying words like 'default' around (as in I have defaulted on agreement which I never made with them, even though I am paying the amount which I did agree with the Court).

 

Still pretty p*ssed off with them phoning almost every day as well!

 

Sorry - lots of questions.

[Allwood]

I expect why the court advised you to contact the CAB to see if the DCA was reputable because they are breaking the law by changing the amount that was agreed by the CCJ. If you are not clear then contact the court again and maybe this time you will get someone that will give you a lot more information. If I were you I would make an official complaint to the court about them and they should take it up for you.

[Sidewinder]

Well they have at last sent the statement of the account and it seems to bear out what I thought - the account is £10 outstanding, not over £100 as Moorcroft claimed.

 

Furthermore (with thanks again to Robdblynd for the suggestion) I have had a very interesting e mail from the Courts Service after a particularly diligent member of staff consulted others and has written to me again.

 

It may explain why Morrcroft flat refused to confirm whether or not they had bought the debt.

 

"...I have made further enquiries into this with a colleague in enforcement. You should not have to pay more money than the amount ordered by the court and set out in the instalment order. Order 22 of the County Court Rules provides that a judgment creditor may apply to the district judge on notice for an order that the money if payable in one sum, be paid at an earlier date than that by which it is due. Or, if the money is payable by instalments, that it be paid in one sum or by larger instalments. Any such application must be made in writing stating the proposed terms and the grounds on which it is made. Also they would have had to serve a copy of the notice on you so that you could attend court and give you side. From what you've said this doesn't appear to have happened.

They were also concerned about the issue surrounding the creditor apparently "selling off" the CCJ to a debt collection agency. As far as they are aware this cannot happen, unless ordered by the court. In doing so the creditor may have acted unlawfully..."