Urgent Info Needed To Confirm A Bank Leak

[Ripley]

Two things occur to me at this point: Firstly Lloyds reduction in their charges means that the original subject of the thread - that Lloyds are about to run up the white flag in the OFT case- is not likely to be true, because the new charge structure would then be found unlawful like the original one in a week or two.

Secondly, it is a good thing because it means that the banks have broken rank on charges and will now have to compete with one another; if the OFT case drags on for years, at least there will be a genuine choice, with some pressure on the banks to be seen to be the one that rips us off the least instead of the current cartel approach.

[tezl]

hi,i dont know but it appears that they are testing the water, adding more labour and admin to charges.this would give them better argument as to actual cost of charges,disclosure,which must be their priority to prevent all this kicking of again.

tez

[tifo]

tifo reclaiming benefits has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the charges are unlawful. The taking of benefits by the banks is unlawful under statute namely The Social Security Act amongst others

 

 

It has been discussed somewhere that the 'charge' part of the Act refers to a charge the same way a mortgage company has a charge on your property, and not to a charge as the bank makes.

 

The FOS made it clear that hardship would mean immediate loss and not that you suffered hardship many months (or years) ago because of the charges.

 

Immediate loss would mean that you have to pay your rent etc and they take the money out of your benefits so you cannot do this.

[alecmac18]

FOS make things as clear as mud.

[alecmac18]

I don't buy the FOS argument. I have spoken to them on a number of occasions and when I do bring up the issue of hardship cases they seem to display a startling lack of clarity on the issue. Much spluttering occurs.

 

If a someone has had money taken from their account (possibly illegally), are on benefits, cant pay essential bills etc....If said charges have been in the hundreds of pounds per month - and have essentially put that person in a position of extreme financial hardship then the money should be returned in full, test case or no test case.

[tifo]

and have essentially put that person in a position of extreme financial hardship then the money should be returned in full, test case or no test case.

 

Yes, the FOS mean hardship NOW, as in charges from the last few months max.

 

If you are claiming charges back from 5 years ago and are saying they were from benefits etc and you are suffering hardship NOW you cannot ask for these charges. So the FOS is saying it's OK for the banks to charge benefits that long ago, just not if it causes you hardship NOW.

[alecmac18]

Is that official policy yet?

[alecmac18]

I would argue that it should be at least the last 2 years. At a minimum.

[tifo]

Is that official policy yet?

 

 

no idea, it's what i've been told.

 

FOS stayed a business claim and i said hardship, they said, nope, can't use it, charges were 6 years ago, hardship is now, charges must also be from now to claim hardship.

[alecmac18]

Was it LTD or Sole Trader/Partnership?

 

I've spoken to FOS on many occasions over the past 6 weeks about this following the FSA wavier announcement. As yet I do not think they have made a definate decision on this as yet.

[olden]

Two things occur to me at this point: Firstly Lloyds reduction in their charges means that the original subject of the thread - that Lloyds are about to run up the white flag in the OFT case- is not likely to be true, because the new charge structure would then be found unlawful like the original one in a week or two.

Secondly, it is a good thing because it means that the banks have broken rank on charges and will now have to compete with one another; if the OFT case drags on for years, at least there will be a genuine choice, with some pressure on the banks to be seen to be the one that rips us off the least instead of the current cartel approach.

 

Hi there A couple of points you made here the new structure of charges would indeed be unlawful, this would end up much greater penalties tha n before wouldn't it? To make any new 'friends', (I for one will certainly be changing banks to whoever is the cheapest of course,) they should come clean the true charge is £2/£2.50. and in Martin Lewis Charter which we have all signed £5, While I did not agree with this figure, I signed the petition. Also I am glad you mentioned about breaking ranks, in one of my first letters I asked the question, "when did all the banks collude in fixing the price of the penalty charges at £30, £35. This is something which I consider to have been overlooked, isn't it an illegal practice??

[tifo]

Was it LTD or Sole Trader/Partnership?

 

I've spoken to FOS on many occasions over the past 6 weeks about this following the FSA wavier announcement. As yet I do not think they have made a definate decision on this as yet.

 

It was a sole trader account and they made a decision to hold all current account claims (personal and business) as soon as the OFT announcement of 27 July. I got my letter on 6 August telling me test case, on hold, blah blah.

 

I had to get them to go back and take a look at the default part of my complaint as that has nothing to do with the charges, which they assumed.

 

They said all cases will be looked at again after 2 months and a decision made to carry on the hold or look at them again.

[alecmac18]

Ok here's some interesting stuff:

 

FOS have told me that each hardship complaint under the banking code needs to be sent back to the bank as a seperate complaint (e.g another 8 weeks). If you are then not satisfied with the response then FOS can have a look at it. As yet I do not think that they have any guidelines on this.

 

But here's the really interesting stuff: The FSA wavier is up for review at the end of the month and the following banks have told me that they will have a response to hardship cases at the end of the month:

 

Barclays, Halifax & NatWest

 

So what the hell is going to happen at the end of the month?

[alecmac18]

Cause at the moment the silence regarding hardship cases is deafening.

[tifo]

the following banks have told me that they will have a response to hardship cases at the end of the month:

 

Barclays, Halifax & NatWest

 

Well, mine are Barclays (business account through FOS now), HSBC (1 personal account, 1 business account), Natwest (1 business account) and RBS (1 personal account).

 

Surprisingly, Lloyds paid over £800 last week after looking at 'financial position'. Got letter one day, money was in account the next day.

[electric lemon]

Just subscribing......

 

But I also just wanted to mention that my claim against Barclays was heard in court on 23rd August, & a Judge Moon, apologised for the behaviour of the Banks & advised that he had no choice but to make a stay & that unfortunately I would have to wait a little longer, but should be getting my money (claim is for £7000) around Feb 2008.

 

That would correlate with some other information there is on this thread.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm, very interesting.

[olden]

Just subscribing......

 

But I also just wanted to mention that my claim against Barclays was heard in court on 23rd August, & a Judge Moon, apologised for the behaviour of the Banks & advised that he had no choice but to make a stay & that unfortunately I would have to wait a little longer, but should be getting my money (claim is for £7000) around Feb 2008.

 

That would correlate with some other information there is on this thread.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm, very interesting.

 

Tell us more, did he actually say you WILL be getting your money?? we wait with baited breath mind you I was hoping it would be before that:(

[Castlebest]

Well my stays been set until Sept 2008 so dont hold your breath lol

 

pete

[deadlykiss]

wow quite a wait then huh yea i just had letter from halifax saying they were gonna apply for stay for my claim but at mo kettering doing it case by case so im keeping fingers crossed

[ladyinred]

I have certainly noticed a softening of attitude from lloyds in the last couple of weeks. They have agreed a deb t management plan and i am no longer being hassled on a daily basis, further charges dont seem to have been added AND yesterday i received some new leaflets with new t and c from nov 2008 ( not had chance to scan them yet) AND they now say they will not automatically be charging when i go overdrawn as therewill be a grace and favour period until 3.30 that day!!!!!! not a lot i know but every little helps so there is obviously a great deal of scurrying about behind the scenes at the moment!

[ladyinred]

my charges were mainly last year and late year before but although not recent they have had a knock on/cumulative effect and still causing me hardship now!

[olden]

Hi ladyinred, Lloyds are not changing for the better I am afraid, you could end up paying a lot more in one month than ever before. If you went over £100. in one month that would cost you £250 read back over on a few other sites, for example Cardiff Directions Hearing, and Letters to MPs etc. also I wil try and paste some newspaper articles here.

 

 

 

LLOYDS BITES BULLET IN WAR ON HIGH FEES

 

Wednesday September 12,2007

 

 

Lloyds TSB has become the first high street bank to cut overdraft rates after criticism about excessive bank charges and a fees investigation by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT).

 

 

Lloyds’ new policy includes reducing interest rates on unauthorised borrowing and a text-message service warning customers when they are close to their overdraft limit. The bank said the measures had been taken after “talking to thousands of customers”.

 

 

But campaigners believe it is an attempt to pre-empt the results of the OFT’s charges probe, which includes a test case brought against several leading banks to establish whether it is fair to charge penalties of up to £39 for unauthorised borrowing.

 

 

“Lloyds is doing now what it will probably be forced to do next year anyway, after the OFT’s test case,” said Lisa Taylor from Moneyfacts.co.uk “It’s great that banks are warning customers in advance with text messages, but Lloyds’ charges are still expensive — particularly if you go more than £100 into unauthorised borrowing. You could be charged up to £215 a month.”

 

 

Mike Naylor from uSwitch.com said: “It does finally seem that the looming test case is having some impact on the banks’ attitudes to levels of charges. We hope the other big banks will follow Lloyds’ example in the coming months.”

 

 

Lloyds refunded £36million- worth of overdraft charges in the first half of this year but all refund claims have now been frozen until the outcome of the OFT investigation, expected early next year.

 

 

The new Lloyds measures, which come into effect on November 2, will see unauthorised interest rates for a Classic account slashed from 29 per cent to 19 per cent.

 

 

Customers who go over their overdraft limit will also be given a “period of grace” — until 3.30pm that day — to correct things without incurring any fees. Instead of penalising customers £30 a day should they go into the red without permission the bank will now charge £15 a month, then between £6 and £20 a day, according to the amount borrowed. The penalty for bouncing a cheque, standing order or direct debit will fall by £15 to £20. The text-message warning service will cost £2.50 per month.

 

 

Lloyds TSB’s Ian Larkin said: “We want to help our customers avoid accidentally slipping into the red and are giving them the tools to do just that. We understand it can sometimes be difficult to keep tabs on an account and we want to make it easier to do so.”

 

 

In a different move to tackle unauthorised borrowing, the cash machines of HSBC are to alert customers when a withdrawal is about to take them over their overdraft limit. The warning messages will start appearing at the 3,500 cash machines operated by the bank on October 1, although warnings will not be displayed on non-HSBC machines.

 

 

NatWest is also expected to provide a “new option” later this year for customers who go over their authorised overdraft limit.

 

 

Anna Bowes from independent financial adviser AWD Chase de Vere said: “People must budget carefully and take some responsibility for going overdrawn. Banks are not charities and everyone knows they will incur high charges if they dip into money that is not theirs.

 

 

“Should you find yourself going into an unauthorised overdraft, talk to your bank and try to arrange a solution. If you are getting into a spiral of debt, do not bury your head in the sand — talk to a debt counsellor immediately.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• YourMoney Homepage

 

Pos:

[Gazza01]

Wow,

 

did anyone notice in the above article that it actually lists what the official monthly interest rate was in the past and what it will be after november?

 

This would be of interest I suspect to anyone trying to claim back Contractual Interest on their particular claim.

 

Laters

[olden]

Wow,

 

did anyone notice in the above article that it actually lists what the official monthly interest rate was in the past and what it will be after november?

 

This would be of interest I suspect to anyone trying to claim back Contractual Interest on their particular claim.

 

Laters

Yes it would but only after that date, is it?