9 months later and still not working...

[Chimera]

Right.. I'll try and make it brief... I have contacted TS but would like some advice... if anyone can offer it

This is what I sent to TS the other month...

Our smart car broke down in NOvemeber last year. We looked around a few places, but the specialist were all down south.

 

To save time, we enquired about getting the work done locally. A local engine specialist assured us that the work could be done by them and would be cheaper. THis was January this year.

 

I wish I had read the TS guidelines sooner and got proper quotes, but I'm new to the specialist car game and my partner (who is relatively new driver) was taking up the challenge of dealing with it.

We were verbally quoted £650, and then every week they would say it was ready, and at the last minute, find another problem. Eventually it cost £830 (without VAT). I have a receipt for cash, but no invoice or paperwork for the work undertaken.

Two weeks later the turbo blew, the garage assured us this was a common problem after engine work (I have since found out this is not the case).

I managed to source a 2nd hand turbo from a smart specialist, and paid another £150 (no VAT) cash to have it fitted.

My partner then drove the car and thought the turbo wasn't working correctly, so took it back to the garage. They convinced him it was, and he went home. Two weeks after getting the car back, the 2nd turbo blew. Car was recovered back to the garage.

I asked the garage to look into the problem as it seems to be not a problem with the turbo, but another fault making the turbo blow (after consultation with other specialists).

I probably should have taken the car to another garage straight away, because I am now worried they will rectify the problem to cover their own backs. It's very stupid of us, but we have no paperwork form them. I have been advised to take the car elsewhere and take legal action, but I'm a little overwhelmed and very upset.

The car has so far cost us around £1000 to fix, and will probably cost over £1000 to get it working again. More than £1350 more than orginally quoted.

I would appreciate any help/advice you can offer as I am very anxious to get the problems resolved after 6 months of battling.

I have given the garage every opportunity to repair it, but they refuse to take any responsibility, balming it on the 2nd hand turbo. I have pointed out that the work should have been done and the car fixed initially at the estimated cost of £650 (rising to £830), but they refuse to listen. The mechanic will not even talk to me and has left an almost threatening message on my partners phone.

Since then:

 

 

 

Found another garage to take car on. Had car recovered there (after an ordeal:

The garage in question (garage A) - , were initially not going to release the car. The new garage (gargae B) had phoned the day previous, and arranged for pick up the next day and for to send any invoices on along with paperwork of what had been done to car. They then refused to release the car when the pick up came, but eventually did when my partner claimed legal action. When it arrived at the garage B, it was missing the turbo, back bumper and wheel arches.

 

We have heard nothing from garage A since. We do owe them £35 for recovery, but I specifically asked them to do NOTHING to the car unless they gained permission. It is a difficult situation as both myself and my partner feel threatened and intimidated by them, so do not want any further personal contact.

 

I gave garage A fair chance to rectify the situation - but they refused to - saying I would have to pay another £1000+ and that they could not guarantee any damage hadn't been done to the engine. IT is being looked at by another garage early next week, and I am hoping they can detail some information about what has/has not been done to the car.

 

So basically I need to know:

 

- How do I go about getting the car parts returned?

- How do I go about asking for paper work? (I have nothing but a receipt for cash paid)

- Do I ask for money back, or cost to fix the car now - I presume it is the previous, as the car should have been fixed initially and was not, and now needs work doing by another garage? do I get a quote from garage B and ask Grange A to pay this?

- Do I need to employ a solicitor?

- Can I claim compensation for lack of car for 6 months, immense stress it has caused us, particularly my partner and effect on our business?

- Can I claim compensation for insurance and road tax, when they made the car unusable?

- Where do I start? We are going to have to borrow money to get the car fixed, and then sell it. I want to make sure that I do everything properly?

 

PLEASE NO POSTS ABOUT ME BEING STUPID.... I HAVE LEARNED MY LESSON...

[gamequeen88]

i think that's need time ~~~~~~~~~~~~... ...

 

don't worry about that

[118:8]

Just a suggestion but if this vehicle is for business use ignore my advice.

- How do I go about getting the car parts returned?

- Letter recorded delivery (keep a copy) asking for them to return the parts, supply suitable replacements, or refund you to the value of them, giving them 14 days to respond.

-

- How do I go about asking for paper work? (I have nothing but a receipt for cash paid)

- What paperwork do you want? Ask for a full breakdown of the bill in your letter.

-

- Do I ask for money back, or cost to fix the car now - I presume it is the previous, as the car should have been fixed initially and was not, and now needs work doing by another garage? do I get a quote from garage B and ask Grange A to pay this?

- Yes get the other garage to give you a full report on what the faults are and get a quote from them, include the quote in the letter asking for them to agree to pay this.

-

-

- Do I need to employ a solicitor?

- No not yet, perhaps get in touch with your CAB, see if Trading Standards can help, find out if the garage are with an association and try them.

-

- Can I claim compensation for lack of car for 6 months, immense stress it has caused us, particularly my partner and effect on our business?

- You can for proved financial loss such as consequential loss and unavoidable expenses, but things like time and stress (if you can quantify it) would only be down to the Sheriff of the Civil Court.

-

-

- Can I claim compensation for insurance and road tax, when they made the car unusable?

- Yes.

-

- Where do I start? We are going to have to borrow money to get the car fixed, and then sell it. I want to make sure that I do everything properly?

- Recorded delivery letter with the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 as your heading.

 

[Conniff]

Quote

(I have nothing but a receipt for cash paid)

 

This means it should have been recorded in the accounting books, if it wasn't you will have another weapon on your side.

[Chimera]

Thanks Coniff - sorry for late reply... my email didn't tell me I'd had a reply

 

I will have a good look later and start with the letter

[Chimera]

Any suggestions for letter?? I'm not so good at writing letters like this..

[Conniff]

Hi Chimera

 

You will need to let then know how you entrusted the vehicle to them only because they assured you they had the necessary skills to complete the work and that you expected them to operate with professionalism and honesty.

Tell them you require a schedule of work carried out and an itemised invoice showing all parts fitted.

 

Do you know if they are a vat registered company, have they added vat to your receipt?

 

There wont be any need to threaten them at this stage until they answer and either enclose the requested information or fail to answer or do not send you any paperwork.

They will not be able to say they no longer have a record of work done or the purchase of parts as these must be kept for a period of 6 yeaes.

 

Oh and don't forget recorded delivery and in a brown envelope is best. Your local newsagent usually sells them.

[Chimera]

Thanks conniff... again - my email is playing up and didn't tell me I ahd another message - will manual check a few times a day now.

 

As far as I know they are VAT registered.. They have been around a while. And - no - they did not add VAT onto it.

 

Have just spoken to new garage who say an independent engineer would cost about £500 to do a report.. eeeek

 

But they ahve told me that the whole engine either needs replacing or completely reconditioning (which is what the other garage should have done)..

 

So something like this - I'm not too good at letter writing so please feel free to add/change

 

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

Dear Sir,

I am writing to you regarding the smart car (reg *******) which you worked on earlier this year.

We entrusted the vehicle to you only because you assured us you had the necessary skills to complete the work and that we expected them to operate with professionalism and honesty.

Parts of the car were not provided when the car was recovered from your possesion (please see attached list). I require you to return the parts, supply suitable replacements, or refund you to the value of them.

The paperwork relating to the work undertaken shuld ahve also been passed to Crewe Engines when the car was recovered - these have still not been recieved by either myself or Crewe Engines. I require a schedule of work carried out and an itemised invoice showing all parts fitted.

I require you to respond with 14 days.

[patdavies]

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

 

Dear Sir,

 

I am writing to you regarding the smart car (reg *******) which you worked on earlier this year.

 

We entrusted the vehicle to you only because you assured us you had the necessary skills to complete the work and (deleted) we expected you to operate with professionalism and honesty.

Parts of the car were not returned when the car was recovered from your possession (please see attached list). We require the return the parts, the supply suitable Smart manufactured replacements, or a refund to us of the cost of replacement.

 

All documentation relating to the work undertaken should have also been passed to Crewe Engines when the car was collected - these have still not been received by either myself or Crewe Engines. I require a schedule of the work carried out and an itemised invoice showing all parts fitted.

 

I require you to respond with 14 days.

 

 

 

 

 

Changes in red

[Chimera]

Thanks Pat - That's excellent - I shall get it off recorded delivery tomorrow

[Chimera]

actually - should I be asking for a refund at this point or will the above be ok?

[Conniff]

Hi Chimera

 

No not at this time. We need to establish exactly what work they claim they did and what parts they used and then tally that up with what was actually done and which parts were actually fitted.

[Chimera]

righty.. will get that printed out and off in post tonight..

 

Thanks.. will keep you updated

[Chimera]

RIght.. update - sorry it's been a while...

 

Garage sent bumpers and turbo to garage but still no paperwork..

 

Car has now had issue resolved.. It appears in the new garages opinion that it was a small part which broke the turbo. BUt basically the bill to strip the engine, fix damage caused and replace turbo is about £1800.

 

Can anyone help me with what to do next??

 

I have paperwork from latest work that has been done, which includes their opinion of what went wrong. would like to get sorted asap.. as I;m now in a situation where it needs new lights and an MOT to be sold... and needs to be sold asap...

 

It has now cost near the full value of the car to have it repaired.. £3k - it should have cost £650 according to first garage... who then messed it up

[Chimera]

anyone help pleaassee? or do you think I'm best going to a solicitor?

[Conniff]

I have paperwork from latest work that has been done, which includes their opinion of what went wrong.

 

Has this second garage indicated that it was faulty workmanship/parts by the first garage that caused the replacement turbo to blow, hence the damage to the engine?

Have you obtained the broken/replaced parts from garage 2?

 

Eventually it cost £830 (without VAT).

 

Was VAT added to that total and paid? If not, do you know if it is a VAT registered garage?

[Chimera]

Hiya,

The second garage has noted that in 'their opinion' it was a faulty part not replaced by first garage - no - haven't got faulty parts - but turbo was tested by second garage with no fault to be found.

 

No VAT was paid - cash (have reciept). They are VAT registered as far as I know.

[Conniff]

No VAT was paid - cash (have reciept). They are VAT registered as far as I know.

 

If you can find out for definate then you have a nice bit of ammunition to ask for your money back (blackmail if you like).

[patdavies]

If you can find out for definate then you have a nice bit of ammunition to ask for your money back (blackmail if you like).

 

Not necessarily. The garage will have to pay HMRC the VAT due, but they are not legally obliged to charge it on to the customer.

[Chimera]

So any advice of what to do next??

 

Shall I send a letter? What should I ask for? I don't want to do it wrong...

[Conniff]

The second garage has noted that in 'their opinion' it was a faulty part not replaced by first garage - no - haven't got faulty parts - but turbo was tested by second garage with no fault to be found.

 

That part may not have needed replacing at the time the repair was carried out, so that doesn't really mean much.

 

Not necessarily. The garage will have to pay HMRC the VAT due, but they are not legally obliged to charge it on to the customer.

 

I know that, but how many do work for 'cash' and don't put it through the books.

 

If you want the detailed invoices, I think you will have to write a letter and tell them you need a detailed invoice of work carried out and parts fitted.

 

What size is the garage, does it have an office and a reception, is there a boss that you can write to? or preferably go to see in person.

[Chimera]

That part may not have needed replacing at the time the repair was carried out, so that doesn't really mean much.

They Turbo didn't need resplacing initially. It had to be changed when the car went back - we got them a mint second hand one, which they fitted (charged us £150 cash). Then two weeks later the car boke down again - TURBO AGAIN - at this point I said I woudl not buy another one - it was obviously something they ahd/had not done to the engine. They refused toa ccept this - and blamed turbo going on either: dodgy turbo (as it was second hand), or 'The way we drove the car!'.

But basically it was a small part they ahd brokem/not replaced when reconditioning the engine - which has meant:

Two Turbos replaced

2 x Engine reconditioned (once by first garage - again by second garage due to damage done)

Considerable Labour - taking the engine apart twice to find out what was wrong.

As you can see - the bill just keeps adding up

 

 

I know that, but how many do work for 'cash' and don't put it through the books.

 

I'm sure thsi was done for 'cash'

 

If you want the detailed invoices, I think you will have to write a letter and tell them you need a detailed invoice of work carried out and parts fitted.

 

I'm not too bothered about the invoice - have asked once already - just wondered if I needed it to start trying to claim my pennies back.

 

What size is the garage, does it have an office and a reception, is there a boss that you can write to? or preferably go to see in person.

 

It is an average size garage - one guy on reception - Boss is the mechanic who did the car - and he is VERY intimidating.

Basically - what I want from the first Garage is some or all of the below:

• Invoice from second garage paid (they had to repair the mess that the first garage made) approx £1700
  
• Price of replacement Turbo and Fitting (one included in 2nd garage invoice) £350 + £150
  
• Compensation for car insurance whilst car off road (approx £800)
  
• Compensation for loss of earnings and emotional distress (priceless)
  
• An apology (I'll be lucky)
  
• Interest

[Conniff]

What is this small piece that you think they either broke or didn't replace?

I don't see how you can absolve the turbo with certainty as it was used and was ok for two weeks.

I can't see how you can ask for a refund from the first garage unless you can show that they were the cause of the second breakdown.

I don't think "obvious something they had/had not done" will warrant any action unless you can show that.

 

What do you mean exactly when you say "engine reconditioned", what was done to it?

What work was done for £1700, did you get an itemised invoice for that?

[Chimera]

Statement from second Garage:

 

Breather Pipe

Replaced due to tabs missing from connection end.

In our opinion, debris has been allowed into the system via this pipe and caused the turbos to fail

 

This should not have happened to start with. They assured us the turbo was fine.. then when second turbo fitted - we were assured it was fine.

The car is not used on a regular basis - to commute etc - my partner works from home, and he uses it to nip to shops etc - not even on a daily basis.

 

The second Garage have had to re-do the job the first garage did - and replace turbo. The turbo was investigated for faults - and it was not the Turbo that was at fault. They unfortunately had to take the engine apart to find out what was wrong.

 

Details of invoice from second garage:

 

Collection of vehicle

Initial Investigation & test

Turbo

breather pipe

oil inlet pipe (turbo)

air line pipe

clip

screw

seal

lambda sensor

LABOUR to remove engine,

strip ancillaries,

strip engine,

clean & inspect,

diagnose faulty breather pipe,

re-build engine

re-fit ancillaries,

re-fit engine

test

replace lambda sensor

re-fit rear bumper

4 litres of oil

 

 

Basically - they did all the tests - they made sure they knew what the problem was. It's doing my head in... It was a small mistake - but it was just that - I gave the first garage every opportunity to fix it - but they just wanted to replace the turbo again - and cast blame on us!

 

Labour was Half the 2nd invoice... plus the biggies like the turbo - which should have been fine first time round - not fine after two replacements..

[Chimera]

Hey guys.. can anyone help? I'm absolutely desperate.. we can't even afford to have the additional work done on the car to sell it.. time keeps dragging on - borrowed money from partners step dad to get it fixed to date.. needs paying back... Really in a pickle..