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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Claims transferred to Southend...


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Hi

 

I am also due at Southend on the 17th July. My one is at 14:00pm and like everyone else I am pooing my pants. Aaaahhhhh!

 

I've read through what seems like loads of threads but the general consensus seems to be that we don't need to go fully armed with documentation. Is this correct. I've got the basics together but am not sure what I need at this point.

 

Help...

 

TJ

T J :p

 

 

S.A.R Sent 21/8/06

Statements and microfiche received 11/10/06

Request for payement of charges 29/1/07

LBA sent 21/2/07

MCLO filed 26/3/07

Acknowledgement of service recieved 4/4/07

Defence filed/received - transferred to Southend 30/4/07

Stayed unitl 27/6/07

Allocation & Case Management Conference 17/7/07 14:00pm

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Updated list of thoose of us going to be there on the 17th july and times we are in

 

gig1965 10:00

spurs1 10:30

sf20864 11:00 (non-attending)

bonking 11:00

Newbody 12:30

rsspence 12:30

TJ.Daws 14:00

rosemarymadder 15:00

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Have just read the threat inamuddle suggested.

 

It seems that most banks are offering a settlement prior to the Allocation meeting and if not then when you get to court the Judge advises that the bank have agreed to settle. Thanks for posting this link, it has cheered me up:D . Read Bankfodders comments but think I am being a bit thick and need to re-read them several times as still didn't understand what I need to take with me! It appears you are only allocated 5 mins with the judge anyway.

 

Have Abbey contacted any of you that have 17th date? I think a number of the people who hadn't been contacted by their bank on the other thread, rang their bank to remind them of their approaching date and they e-mailed them with a settlement offer?

 

As mentioned, my date is the 25th at 14:00pm.

 

Good luck eveyone!

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hi everyone. not sure, what paperwork are we supposed to take? court have the photocopies of statements and correspondence.do we list all in chronological order and mention the money programme and oft investigation with our opinion on why banks are dispropportionate. we really should meet up and swap notes about this.forum 17th or costas/starbucks on the day? bon x

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I am sure that if instructed to bring nothing, then this is exactly what to do. I am sure the judge is on top of it all. I was going to take draft order of directions and statement to ensure small claims route, but will not bother.

 

If we only get five mins then I amsure the judge will just read out his directions and see who has any issue with them. Job done.

 

See you there 12:30

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Hi there

 

Sorry have been away hence not responding sooner.

 

Re CI, well the judge is unlikely to say go for it, in fact he said quite the contrary when i met him before.

 

However, now i have amended my POC to tackle the issue for a different view point IE utccr and account of profits.

 

something else that scuppered me last time was that abbey made an offer about five mins before we went in and i made some mistakes. If they have not made you an offer they will probably try this tomorrow.

 

Id stress you must say that you avoid any discussions if possible and if you cant then you stress that they are on a without prejudice basis. unless you are prepared to take what Abbey offer.

 

Some people are saying you don't need to bring anything, all i can say is that from my experience you should be prepared to present your claim at least in brief and be prepared to defend your position if required.

 

Abbey my challenge your right to bring a claim for charges older than six years if you have any and your right to ask for CI.

 

If you turn up without the necessary knowledge to hand you are likely to loose that portion of your claim at the direction shearing.

 

It could be of course that abbey do not attend or don't try these tactics, personally i would bank on neither and would be as prepared as i could.

 

I am no expert but this will be the 4th time i have attended court in relation to my charges claims and every time i have had to do something other than simply listen.

 

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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thanks for that Glenn i knew you had appeared before the judge at southend in the past and just wanted some words of wisdom from you thanks for your time

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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:confused: definitely feeling stressed now!! dont know what to take with me, and if indeed i will remember any of the points of my argument (even if i knew fully at this stage what that was going to be).

 

Glenn sounds fully switched on and even he had problems.....:Cry: sent an email to clare fletcher but surprise, surprise had no response... should have known would not be that easy.

 

well have got rest of the afternoon and evening to figure out what to take. wonder if anyone will still be around at 3.00

 

Rosemarymadder

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Hi Rosemarymadder

 

I know exactly what you mean I am also in full fledge panic...but will be there no matter what. I also emailed Clare thought I'd show willing at trying to reach a settlement, she replied with in about half an hour and said 'Thank you for your offer of settlement. Abbey has however instructed Counsel to appear at the hearing tomorrow, and is not in a position to negotiate settlement pending the outcome of that hearing.'

So there you go, basically its down to tomorrow. Can anyone confirm if anyone has heard of anything being thrown out at this point. That is my huge worry that somehow I have missed something or done something wrong despite pouring over threads until my eyes are going to pop. Also just to check that I don't need a full court bundle at this point. Anyone out there can give me a 'this is what you need tomorrow...' At the moment I have various documents together in a file including what I hope is information supporting why my case should be handled at small claims court but I have never felt quite so uncertain of my own arguements. The problem is I think I have almost read too much and now have lots of conflicting info in my head.....HELP!!!!!!!!

T J :p

 

 

S.A.R Sent 21/8/06

Statements and microfiche received 11/10/06

Request for payement of charges 29/1/07

LBA sent 21/2/07

MCLO filed 26/3/07

Acknowledgement of service recieved 4/4/07

Defence filed/received - transferred to Southend 30/4/07

Stayed unitl 27/6/07

Allocation & Case Management Conference 17/7/07 14:00pm

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RE 17th july subject to trains being on time i should be there about 930ish

 

i am taking a basic outline of arguments with me Why i am entitled to money back UTCCR and case list that backs it up Sale of Goods ACT

 

Why i am entitled to CI over Simple interest +CASE LAW

 

and why i think CI should be at 28.9% instead of courts 8%

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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I suggest writing out some notes concentrating on the salient points of your case and of course trashing the banks case if you can.

 

Personally I will take my file along with me and any case law i intend to cover.

 

Don't be nervous, just try to prepare the best you can.

 

I haven't heard of a claim being thrown out in its entirety, but i have heard of elements of claims being so, charges older than six years and CI being two issues in point.

 

If your claim is straight forward charges with stat interest then i doubt there is much danger of it being dismissed.

 

As long as you remember the key issues i.e.

 

the charges are a penalty levied on you on YOUR breach of contract. There is plenty of evidence in the public domain to show that the charges exceed their costs significantly and the case should be allowed to proceed to trial unless the defendant is prepared to settle. They have failed to settle so far i presume otherwise you wouldn't be going to court.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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just got myself into a state and then realised that CI does not apply to me...phew..

 

what does everyone think to the argument that the true cost of bouncing a cheque etc must be very little if the bank can afford to waste money. i.e my claim (had it been settled at the beginning) was £3073.00. now because of using the court as a delaying tactic in the hope that i will give up, (what other reason is there to drag it all through the courts and then not show up?) it now stands in excess of4110.00 and rising. well over 1000.00 wasted on not settling early.

 

not very good at remembering legal jargon so thought i needed to think up a me type of argument.

 

any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

no response from clare fletcher:rolleyes:

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Rosemary

 

the arguments for the charges being penalties are set out in the FAQs and your POC i think.

 

As much as their waste might be an indicator, it hardly constitutes evidence as to their charges being penalties. The competition commissioner reports, the Financial Ombudsman report etc all point to them being penalties.

 

Don't get too complex use the info provided and don't be put off.

 

Forgot to say the judge is a nice bloke and will explain and give you a chance to explain where the need arises.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Good luck to you all tomorrow, i have no words of wisdom to offer, but all the very best of luck

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Hi Rosemary

 

If your like me it does sometimes feel like your going round in circles a bit. My claim is very similar to yours i.e the actual charges were £3555 and now with the interest abd court fee its up to £4430 and thats just basic stat interest and without any additional costs for the prep of Court Bundle etc. I can see why they are pushing it but it does seem a bit mad when it will cost them soooo much more. But I guess they still want to keep how they come up with the costs of their charges under wraps. Anyway I may see you there as your an hour after me.

 

Anyone got any idea how long it takes??

 

Also any advice if a settlement is offered before the actual hearing or is this unlikely to happen so not an issue.

 

TJ :?

T J :p

 

 

S.A.R Sent 21/8/06

Statements and microfiche received 11/10/06

Request for payement of charges 29/1/07

LBA sent 21/2/07

MCLO filed 26/3/07

Acknowledgement of service recieved 4/4/07

Defence filed/received - transferred to Southend 30/4/07

Stayed unitl 27/6/07

Allocation & Case Management Conference 17/7/07 14:00pm

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Guys

 

i doubt this is going to sound good however i put it, if you havent read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/23993-legal-arguments-support-claim.html then you should have done so.

 

I have had a quick look and its a start, do a trawl through this link then look for others in the FAQs.

 

May i suggest you simply copy the relevant bits and highlight it if necessary read from it tomorrow to support your claim should you need to do so.

 

As i have laready said if your claim is straight forward chances are you wont have any problems but it is good to have an idea what the arguments are in case someone asks.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Thanks Glenn,

 

Can you also tell me if the 'Case management representation' template in the Abbey - Abuse of Processes thread could be used at this point in support for getting the case struck out.

 

Thanks

 

TJ

T J :p

 

 

S.A.R Sent 21/8/06

Statements and microfiche received 11/10/06

Request for payement of charges 29/1/07

LBA sent 21/2/07

MCLO filed 26/3/07

Acknowledgement of service recieved 4/4/07

Defence filed/received - transferred to Southend 30/4/07

Stayed unitl 27/6/07

Allocation & Case Management Conference 17/7/07 14:00pm

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thanks Glenn have read it and decided to highlight relevant sections, thinking that the judge will be open to the fact that we are not used to this setting and are nervous etc. i am getting too carried away with the fact that i have already nearly prepared my court bundle and i dont know which bits to take.

 

will calm down with a glass of red!

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