Urgent!!! Please Help!

[Josie8]

Is that refering to the bit where Next say an unenforceable debt is still a debt etc etc?

 

 

Yes its a House of Lords ruling and therefore binding on all lower courts

[monopoly23]

Hi Josie thanks for that. Ive tried to google it but I can't find it.

Do you have the link please?

[monopoly23]

Oh btw, got a letter from the solicitors this morning basically saying thay have noted the contents of the letter sent to them and Next, and advising that they do not hold the information requested as they are the acting solicitors for litigation procedures only.

[rory32]

House of Lords - Wilson and others v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Appellant)

[monopoly23]

Ah thanks rory. I searched Wilson v Minister for Trade & Industry and didn't get much lol....

[monopoly23]

Should I be doing something? Would it be better for me if Next dropped the case or if I defend? After Next sending the info in post 141, I would've thought that they'd realise they can't enforce the debt anyway and withdraw the claim. Or can they?

[Laiste]

Hi Monopoly,

 

I will respond to your most recent posts either later tonight or tommorow. I am in the middle of drafting a defence for someone, so have very little time. Sit tight till then!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[monopoly23]

Thanks Laiste. Thought I was all alone for a minute....

[calm1]

Don't worry - you are never alone on this site. What a load of guff in such a short space of time!!!! The best thing about this is that whilst you have time (which drags in many ways) you do have time. I mean time to think about coresspondence recieved and reply to it. How about a New Years Honour for the wonderful Laiste! I never thought I would see a legal bod doing anything for nothing - I stand corrected! Best of luck!

[rory32]

never thought I would see a legal bod doing anything for nothing - I stand corrected!

Laiste is not the only legal bod on this site. There are other kind people on here from the same background.

[monopoly23]

I think when I get my money back from the bank charges, I will buy her one of those thingy's that types out what you say. Don't know what it's called but I'm sure it would give her more free time for herself

 

It IS a load of waffle. They sent the application for a card! Like that makes a difference when their opening sentence is that they do not hold an agreement.

[calm1]

They do seem a bit confused!

[minky93]

Hi! Monopoly, They may be playing a game of poker, waiting to see which one folds the first?

 

As long as it's not you!! lol, hang in there.

 

minky xx

[monopoly23]

Thanks. I checked MCOL and the claim is still ongoing.... its quite funny really now I have all the evidence needed

[calm1]

Precisely, you really must sit tight now and let time take its' course. It is frustrating as you wait - believe me, Next is not having sleeples nights over this - nor should you. There are enough people on this site to help you - this is not just help, this is CAG help!!

[monopoly23]

Just checked MCOL again - I can't help it!

Claim is still there, still need to defend, I just can't believe it.

Next would surely have to let the solicitors know that there is no credit agreement wouldn't they??

And if there's no agreement, what do they possibly think they can gain?

 

I just can't understand their reasoning behing all this.

[minky93]

I don't understand it either Monopoly! I thought they would have thrown the towel in by now!

 

I do think they are going to wait until the 11th hour to see in you will fold.

 

They are playing a psychological game with you, they have no case and they know it. Hang in there, nearly over..

 

minky xx

[monopoly23]

If I acknowledge service though, you'd think they might understand that I'm doing it for a reason!

 

Nearly over, yes....

 

Im quite concerned actually because I haven't heard from Laiste in a while. I hope she's ok. She did say she would come back on Thursday, to start going through everything, but not heard a peep

[Laiste]

Hi Monopoly,

 

There's no need to be concerned, I am always available for emergencies and for defence deadlines. Whilst I try to get back to people when I say I will, it simply isn't always possible! Plus the fact, I have a family member who is very ill, which makes things even more difficult.

 

I will address the substantive issues you raised a few days ago a bit later. What you do need to do, which will help me, is stop fretting about all this. In the absence of an agreement, the debt is entirely unenforceable. They are just making you go through the motions one, to see if you will and two, to upset and annoy you! I don't know why you are surprised

and/or frustrated that these Companies behave unfairly and unreasonably, did you expect any other sort of behaviour from them? If they can't enforce the debt, what's the next best thing for them to do...? Frustrate and annoy the hell out of you, what else is left for them....? So just because there's no agreement, doesn't mean they are in the mood for acquiescing just yet! That's just something you have to accept! At least you're not going to be in the position of having to go to trial, to argue your case in front of a District Judge, which can really be an ordeal for some!

 

What I am saying is, there really is no need whatsoever to be worrying or panicking; a Company not being in possession of an agreement is the best of all scenarios!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[monopoly23]

Hi Laiste! You always turn up when I'm on the edge of panic lol. Ive been fine for about a week... lol

 

Im really sorry to hear about your family member that's ill. I hope s/he gets well soon.

 

Let me know when you want to do this, and I'll make sure I'm available to answer any questions you might have, and I can write a summary of all dates, letters and events etc if that will make it easier for you.

This thread is HUGE!

 

Thanks again

[Josie8]

All thats happening is that they are pushing it as far as they can to see if you will crack under the pressure............

 

Have a look at this thread Provident personal Credit sent this CCA in response to my request slightly different from yours but in this case Provident didn't want to go into court to explain excessive interest charges.

 

Main thing is to keep your chin up..........we're all here to help

[monopoly23]

Well josie, I certainly won't be cracking under the pressure!

I just can't wait to see the outcome of this. There's so many ways it could go and so many reasons why I don't think they can win, it's hard to imagine the final result. I know I must be patient, Patient, PATIENT but I'm so eager for the result!!!

[Laiste]

Hi Monopoly,

 

I'm responding to the salient points of your post when you received the information from Next. First of all, they have admitted they have no credit agreement, so they are stuffed, basically. I don't know where they get their legal advice from, but they should ask for their money back! An unenforceable debt is not a debt, end of story! They would be laughed out of Court by the District Judge if they proffered that argument! So as far as their case goes, they don't have one! They are no doubt waiting to see if you file a defence or not, because obviously if you didn't they would get Judgment by Default, which is what they're hoping for, hence why they haven't withdrawn from the case.

 

If I am right in presuming that their letter wasn't marked Without Prejudice, then we can refer to it in the Defence basically saying that the Claimants have admitted they are not in possession of an agreement and know the debt is unenforceable. We would then go on to say the claim has been issued vexatiously and amounts to unlawful harassment, as the Claimants knew prior to filing the claim that they had no agreement.

 

One of two things will then happen IMO. They will either file a Notice of Discontinuance bringing the case to an end, or they will simply not respond to your defence as they are required to do, and the case will be put on a stay after 33 days. If the latter happens, they would then have to apply to a Judge to seek permission to continue with the case. The longer they leave it, the harder that becomes. However, in my view, if it gets to that stage they will simply leave it and that will be an end to it. It is highly unlikely they will carry on any further, but we'll have to wait and see....!

 

You do have some options to consider in respect of this case, given that they have no doubt registered a Default Notice (DN) against you. You could file a counter-claim (c/c) against them on the basis of unlawful harassment, if they have sent threatening/hostile letters and telephoned you also. The fact that the claim has been issued without any legal basis, also amounts to harassment. As they cannot produce an agreement, they have processed your personal details unlawfully under the Data Protection Act 1998. Registering the DN also amounts to defamation of character, as they have besmerched your reputation, and will prevent you from obtaining further credit. As part of a c/c for damages, you would be seeking removal of the DN. Bear in mind the more you claim in damages, the higher the fee for filing the c/c. You might decide to let their claim fizzle out and issue your own on the same basis. However, the burden of proving the case then rests with you and definitely preferable that it rests with them, as it does now.

 

What you need to think about is how they are going to react having not been able to collect the debt, if you subsequently ask them to remove the DN. Without the threat of having to answer a c/c or claim you might/will issue, they are going to refuse point blank to remove the DN. It will be their last act of spite, if you like. If they think there are going to be serious consequences for not removing it, then they will in all likelihood give in. Although, if you don't file a c/c, they may leave you with no other option other than to file a claim, which of course will cost you money. It costs either way, but as I've said, it's better to do this by filing a c/c. It all comes down to what you want to do. There is of course the small chance they will go to Court if you file a c/c. They would be very foolish to do this given that no agreement exists, but Companies do stupid things, so it's worth bearing in mind.

 

The DN and whether you received it or not, is a mute point given that they don't have an agreement. That said, they were correct in saying they don't have to provide a certified copy. They do have to provide a true copy however. If you didn't receive it, they won't be able to prove either that it was sent or received, as there is no record of 1st/2nd class post, so they have no evidence. A DN must contain a full date, just the month and year are not sufficient and render it invalid.

 

They haven't supplied you with the information you requested under the Subject Access Request, so I would report them to the Information Commissioner. A formal complaint is justified and may well get them into trouble! They are making things unpleasant for you, so a bit of their own medicine is appropriate I think!

 

Can you remind me when the defence has to be filed by and can you post up the full details of the particulars of claim. Thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[monopoly23]

Hi Laiste, good to hear from you! I will answer/reply to each of your paragraphs in order:

 

Their letter wasn't marked without prejudice,

 

If the case is stayed due to them not responding to the defence, where would that leave us? Could they still chase us until we file against them?

 

The letter says - "A default entry will therefore be made on your credit referance file..." I don't know if there is one there or not,

 

They haven't phoned or sent any letters since we last made a payment, but I do want to c/c for the removal of the default,if there is one, depending on the cost. How would you calculate the damages in something like this?

 

The default notice doesn't even contain half the things it should, therefore it IS invalid. Seems like it was meant more of a scare tactic. It's not even headed default notice, though it states "failure to respond will result in a default being registered."

 

They said that as I didn't include the £10 fee, they are not obliged to provide supply it and they would only provide me with info that wasn't archived,

 

The defence has to be filed by 29th June.

 

Their POC:

 

The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £187.42 being the balance outstanding on the Defendant's account in respect of the price of goods supplied and delivered by the Claimant to the order of the Defendant through its mail order catalogue service together with any charges applied to the account in accordance with the terms and conditions of use.

 

Full details of the cost of all purchases made and details of agreed payment arrangements have been given to the Defendant. The Defendant has defaulted in payment.

 

The Claimant claims £187.42

 

That is exactly how it's written, poor punctuation and all. The second paragraph is partly true now they have provided a list of balances each month, but it wasn't correct at the time they filed their claim. Neither have they given us any details of 'payment arrangements'.

 

Let me know if you need anything else.

[monopoly23]

Getting worried now.... I know I shouldn't but I feel a bit forgotten when no one posts for a while