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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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us v the Abbey for £7,500***WON***


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Wow noobrider, thanks for the speedy reply!:)

 

That puts my mind at rest about compromising the Court claim, and once other half has called tomorrow to find out what they are investigating on his card, I will send a letter to Abbey as you suggest asking them what the hell they are playing at! (or words to that effect).

 

Thanks so much for the advice (sorry again for bothering you with it); it may well be a coincidence, just seemed a bit suspicious.

 

Huge thanks

 

Jo xx

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Hey Jo.

 

Sorry for not replying sooner. Have been at a funeral all day :(

 

I agree with noobrider that it is probably coincidental. You should still continue with your claim (I would if I was in the same position), and most definitely call them to find out what's going on.

 

"Keep going all the way until your PAYDAY" (quote from deedee1310, 2007) :D

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

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Hello Ohoh!

I have just read your thread. Charley Farley's threads will help as it does me. I didn't even write to Abbey to say I was taking them to Court. When they sent their letter 'thanks for asking for chgs refund but sorry no can do' I just started my moneyclaim on line. I am a bit cynical as I worked in Banking for 20 yrs, not since 1999 though. I know a bit about their tactics and how they conduct themselves and I'm afraid they are dogmatic so there's no room to be beating around the bush. I see it like if you wanted to get your money back in a shop for faulty goods. You go with the drive of getting your money back. Get that feeling, taking one stage at a time.

 

 

All the very best to you

 

Determind

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Hey determindator

 

Thanks for the support!

 

I didn't write specifically to tell them I was taking them to court, just made it clear in my last letter - rejecting their pony and trap GoGW offer - that if they didn't pay up by tomorrow (cat in hell's chance of that!) then "I would commence Court proceedings without further warning."

 

So bring it on! (omg I am soooooooo scared - seriously)

 

Jo xx

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Having a dumb blonde moment - nothing new there then!

 

As this is a Joint account I am claiming for, can I be the sole claimant or does it have to be in both names on the N1 with 2 signatures?

 

Looked through loads of threads but couldn't find the answer, so sorry if it has been covered before.

 

Thanks

 

Jo xx

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My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

If I have been of help in even the smallest way, please click the star and "add to my reputation" :p

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I have just printed off my N1, schedule of charges (future dated for tomorrow) and Particulars of Claim, ready to take to Croydon County Court in the morning.

 

Every page of the attachments has my name and the account number on it, and I left a space on the Particulars of Claim to write in the claim number.

 

Just a thought - do I need to sign each page of the attachments, or is this not necessary?

 

Basic question probably, but it has done my head in getting this far already, and would just like to be as "spot-on" as possible!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jo xx

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OH MY GOD! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

 

YOU HAVE TO READ THIS!!!!!

 

Other half back, and just called FCO re the letter (post72). This is a brief transcript of the conversation:

 

OH: I'm calling you regarding the letter you sent me

FCO: Can I have your card number please?

OH: Which number would you like, the one on the letter or my actual card number?

FCO: Oh I see - are they similar then? Did we make a mistake?

OH: Well they are both 16 digits if thats what you mean by similar!

FCO: Oh.......(long silence), then did a few security checks

OH: Also, you missed off a letter in my surname! So, whose card is it that you are investigating?

FCO: I don't know (!)

OH: Well I don't have a lot of faith in the FCO investigations at the moment then, if you can't get my name or card number right.

FCO: Just checking something.....ah, there was a stop put on your partners card?

OH: Thats correct, and she called you on the 15th and was told it was all sorted.

FCO: According to the system, the letter we sent to her was not received, so this letter you have should have gone to her.

OH: But the letter was received, and she called you, and you said it was all cleared? And this is not her name or card number either, so who's is it?

FCO: I really don't know. It appears we transposed the details from another account, but only on the letter. (Oh my God what an admission)!!

OH: So what happens now?

FCO: I have checked your account, and it is all fine.

OH: So neither card is stopped or flagged?

FCO: No, everything is absolutely fine.

OH: Actually it's not. Thanks.

***End of Conversation***

 

What the hell are they playing at? So the whole thing was wrong - name, card number the lot. And the letter was dated the same day that I called them to sort out my card!!

 

So now do I have grounds for a complaint, based on the undue stress they have put on me through total incompetence, or is it a bit flimsy/circumstancial??

 

Has anyone ever experienced this before? I really want to take some sort of action, but am not sure what or how. God I am livid :mad:

 

Any thoughts??

 

Jo xx

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Let me get this right. FCO were playing silly b***ers with your card but in actual fact they had the wrong card in the first place?

 

If that's the case then that is unbelievable. I'm not sure who you would have to complain to (if it's them it will take 8 weeks :mad: )

 

I'm so sorry love. Hopefully this is the end of the drama with your card for the time being but methinks you need to lose the "shAbbey Habit".

 

They are awful to bank with and I am so pleased to no longer bank with them, they were a nightmare :mad: :mad: .

 

Does anyone else have any ideas? Would you like me to send you one of Abbey's "How to Complain" leaflets (sent courtesy of Andrew Nanson after receiving my Prelim letter :-o ).

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

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Thanks deedee but I have enough of those "complaints" leaflets to wallpaper the toilet walls - best place for them, me thinks :D

 

Anyway.......... I filed my N1 at Croydon County Court at 11am this morning!!!!!

 

So it's official (omg!) and now the waiting game starts I suppose.

 

Oh and just to rub their noses in it a bit more, I wrote the cheque out of the Abbey account!!!!!! :D

 

Jo xx

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:) I love it!! The offer of the "complaints" leaflet was made with my tongue firmly in my cheek :D .

 

Yes it is official now - good for you. I've not heard a peep from them since my fob off letter last week. I will sending LBA next Wednesday at this rate.

 

I was thinking of amending my claim to including Contractual Interest at their unauthorised overdraft rate of 29.8% APR. What do you think? :???:

 

If I get to the court stage I would ask the judge to consider three rates:

 

1. interest at their Unauthorised OD rate (29.8%)

2. interest at their Authorised OD rate (16.9%)

3. Statutory interest at 8%.

 

Your opinion and anyone else's is most welcome. I'm still trying to find threads to confirm if Abbey have paid out CI to claimants. If anyone knows of any cases, please let me have the links.

 

dee

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

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Hey deedee

 

Not sure on this one but from what I have read you have to include contractual interest right at the start of the claim ie Prelim letter, or else it cannot be considered - that is purely my understanding of it, but I will stand corrected if someone else says otherwise.

 

Hope someone can advise you further.

 

I have subscribed to your thread so will be reading with interest - while mine goes quiet till the Court papers land on their desk!

 

Jo xx

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Do you know what, as it is my first claim (I've wisened up since I started this one), I will leave it as it is. :p

 

My Capital One claim has CI from the outset as does my Haliprats one. It'll be interesting to see how they react to those claims :D

 

Can't take the lulls. Have been reading and contributing to your thread for the last week now.:( Never mind, the excitement will pick up again when Abbey start their usual court shennanigans :D :D

 

Yes - please keep an eye on my threads. I'm just two and a bit weeks behind you with Abbey.

 

deedee x

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

If I have been of help in even the smallest way, please click the star and "add to my reputation" :p

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Will do hun

 

Mind you with the way Abbey have been treating me just lately, I am sure there will be something else to report soon :rolleyes:

 

Otherwise we can just have a chat!

 

Jo xx

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OK, now I have nothing else to do but wait (I wish LOL), everything is going round in my head and I need clarification if possible please on the following:

 

My Prelim letter to Abbey included all the overdraft interest, as charged per month - I hadn't found this wonderful website then, and was following alternative advice!

 

Then reading other websites - still not this one, unfortunately - the advice was NOT to include overdraft interest, so my LBA was amended to reflect this, and I duly informed them in the letter. I did actually take legal advice from a friends' Mum who is a solicitor, and she said that because I was reducing the claim, it did not have any effect, and I did not have to start again.

 

Now, having filed my N1 today it is for less still; I have had to remove two months charges in 2001 to fall within the six year limit (they were valid at the time of the Prelim obviously) and I am nowhere near confident enough to argue the Statute of Limitations.

 

OMG sorry it took so long (:o ), but the question is:

 

If I have to submit a Court Bundle, then the Prelim letter will be included - the others won't because they contain "Without Prejudice" paragraphs - so will the Court question the difference in the amounts? And will this go against me?

 

I know in general a difference in the original request to the Court claim does not matter, but because what I did initially was wrong, I now think thats why Abbey are being so Shabby towards me, because they think I haven't got a clue what I am doing! (How right they are - ish!)

 

I know I am months away from a Court bundle, and may not (prays) ever have to do one, but you know when something is just niggling and won't go away?

 

I would just like some reassurance now please, if possible, that I haven't screwed up and given them an opportunity to throw out my case :confused:

 

Sorry that took so long too!

 

Jo xx

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Hi Jo.

 

Don't know if I'm qualified enough (by experience and knowledge -yet), to help answer.

 

From what I have gleaned, it doesn't matter too much about the schedule of charges in the sense that you can continually amend it, until you file at court. For this reason, I don't see why the Court would question why the amount in the Preliminary Letter is different to the schedule that has been included as part of your evidence.

 

If anyone knows better could you please post and help reassure Jo. :)

 

Apart from that Jo, how is everything otherwise?

 

deedee x

My threads

deedee1310 v Abbey, deedee1310 v Capital One, deedee1310 v Halifax Plc, CapQuest CCJ, deedee1310 v Littlewoods & deedee1310 v Smile

If I have been of help in even the smallest way, please click the star and "add to my reputation" :p

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Thanks deedee - my fountain of reason as ever :)

 

I was just doing the "headless chicken" again I think! No seriously this has taken over my life at the moment - how sad! - and I am just picking holes in my own case before someone else does! Thanks for the reassurance - again!

 

Will pm you in a bit to burden you with my latest woes! (Joke!)

 

Jo xxx

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Ha Ha this gave me a fit of the giggles :rolleyes:

 

Just got a letter from Abbey Customer Operations - here are the first lines:

 

" WOULD YOU LIKE TO BORROW UP TO £15,000?

 

As an Abbey customer, you could borrow from £7,500 at a great rate."

 

Was thinking of writing back to them saying "hey, thats how much you borrowed from me, at a much better rate!" :p

 

TeeHee :D made my day!

 

Jo xx

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Triple Crown 2009

Grand Slam 2009

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LOL Hi Jo,

 

Sorry been very busy at work had not time to talk, well everything seems to be going ok for you now.

 

Dont worry about that Prelim list of charges, the court will only really focus on your claim form and the most up to date list of charges. The main thing is you had the amounts correct when you submitted the claim.

 

Im getting nervous myself waiting to hear back from the court about what they intend do next. I hate sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting for the some action.

 

Keep in touch Leecabs :)

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I just love this thread Jo! Full of ups and downs, keep going. The entire CAG especially is behind u. Even though SHABBEY has tossed u about they will soon be doing the big throw soon, which is to 'throw' u some money. lol

 

Kiddo

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