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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
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Rockinrodders V HSBC (Charges and default removal requested)


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Hi, I finally received the statements last week after 50 days. They sent them to my old address which luckily was my mums house.

 

Today they sent a letter to my Mums saying that as my address had changed and they couldn't verify my signature that I would have to go into a branch with some ID.

 

Seems a bit weird as the letter came after the statements that they weren't going to send out??

 

The account closed in 2003 with a £1800 overdraft (£700 limit) and £1800 managed loan. The charges for 2001-2003 (when it closed) came to £1208.75 and £144.81 overdraft interest on charges. I had to shut the account because I was that far over my overdraft limit that even when I got paid it only just bought me back below it. My entire overlimit overdraft amount was more than made up from charges. So I switched my salary to another bank account and asked HSBC to arrange a payment plan to pay the loan and start paying off the overdraft.

 

HSBC closed the account straight away as they said the loan payments had to be taken from this account and could not be paid externally. They sent it out to their own debt collectors who then passed it on to Heatons. They said that I owed them £4997

 

When I sent my DPA request I requested specifically details of manual interventions etc and also the signed original copies of the credit agreemeents etc as I have always disputed the amount that they said I owed them.

 

They sent my statements but not the credit agreements etc or even a statement of account. Equifax shows a balance owing to them for over £2000 but by my calculations I have repaid more than the original amount. Equifax also shows a default notice, which was a suprise as I never received a notice or even a letter suggesting that they were sending one.

 

HSBC has not provided this information and Heatons has not even replied to my SAR or CCA request.

 

I sent my prelim letter last friday for the charges and also included a paragraph saying that I was disputing the balance of the account and challenging them to prove otherwise. I also told them that I would still require the rest of the details within 7 days or I would add that to my court case when the time came (failure to supply the dpa and cca information).

 

Does anyone know what other information I am entitled to under the DPA/CCA? I read that it was the original signed default notice and original signed credit agreement?

 

Would I have signed a credit agrement for the overdraft or just for the loan. To be honest I don't remember signing anything

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Hi, can anyone help with this?

 

Im sure I read somewhere on here that the banks are required to send original copies of the credit agreements if I specifically request them as part of my SAR request.

 

At the moment neither the bank or the collection agency is willing to provide documents other than the bank statements themselves but these do not reflect the amount that they claim I owe. Also there is no details of the payments I have made to pay off the balance and indeed the outstanding figure they claim is owed.

 

Do I need to send a CCA request as well as the original SAR?

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Hi, Can anybody help with this?

 

I specified in my SAR request to HSBC that I wanted it to include everything, including credit agreement and a statement showing the balance on the account etc.

 

All they have sent is the bank statements?

 

Shoouldnt the Credit agreement etc be included in the SAR ior do I need to send a CCA request as well?

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Sorry rockin, I'm not sure what a CCA is, but surely if you requested in your SAR (of which I did for MBNA) that you want credit agreement etc (I sort of got one from MBAN) then they must provide it. Try sending a LBA for non-disclosure of DPA letter to them, stating to them what you want, what they have given you. Enclose a copy of your original SAR letter and give them 14 days to comply or you will be lodging a complaint with the Information Commissioners and file a claim through the courts.

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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

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Today I received a second copy of my bank statements from HSBC, again they were sent to the wrong address (my mums) and again they only sent statements and NOT any of the other information I requested specifically in the letter (i.e. copy of CCA, default notice etc and details of the outstanding balance and clarification of who was officially chasing this alleged debt).

 

When I got the first set of statements I sent them the standard prelim letter to request the reclaim of all the charges, and also added a paragraph in bold requesting the missing data.

 

The 14 days is up on the prelim so shall I now send the LBA and include the missing data in my request or shall I handle that side of things seperately and write seperate letters to chase?

 

I have already paid well over the original amount but neither HSBC or Heatons will send me a statement of account or balance to substantiate the amount they claim to be outstanding.

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And today received the THIRD set of statements, this time sent to the correct address and sent via Heatons.

 

Still no sign of a credit agreement or copy of the default notice

 

Interesting how the statements showing the loan balance go right back to 1999 but the statements for the current account only goes back to May 2001 - "Because we only keep statements for 6 years"

 

Obviously all the penalty charges were charged to the current account for both loan charges and account charges.......how convenient

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  • 3 weeks later...

N! posted to the local court today. I wanted to do it on MCOL for convenience but the POC were too long because of the default removal.

 

I added on the N1 that they had failed to comply with the CCA request and not supplied either a credit agreement or a a copy of the default notice. So that was the second argument for the default removal, plus of course the standard argument that it was misrepresentational of the default amount becuase of the charges and a third argument that permission had ceased for them to continue processing (especially in the absence of aforementioned agreement).

 

I had to post the N1 to the court, so will take a few extra days. Bet they wait for the cheque to clear as well!

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I just got the third 'we are looking into your complaint, here is our leaflet' letter from HSBC. I got one after my letter complaining at SAR being late, another one after Prelim and a third after LBA. Each one has assigned it a different reference number.

 

My court claim has already been issued (deemed issued on Friday 29th). Shall I bother phoning HSBC and tell them to combine the 3 references or just ignore it and wait for the court proceedings to happen?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Got an offer from HSBC today for £900 which is less than half of my claim.

 

They obviously don't know that its in the court process and being dealt with by DG who have already acknowledged the claim and have until next friday to enter a defence.

 

Shall I bother declining their offer or just ignore their letter like they ignore mine!

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I would send them a rejection letter. Here is a copy of mine:-

 

Response to settlement offer

Thank you for your letter dated xx.xx 2007 offering £xxxxxx.xx in full and final settlement of my request of the bank charges you levied from our account during the last six years. We are prepared to temporarily accept the sum offered as partial settlement on the clear understanding that the remainder of £xxxx.xx is to be paid within the next 10 days. This amount is made up of £xxxx.xx being charges levied from our account as detailed in my letter before action datedxx.xx 2007, £xxx.xx being the interest claimed under section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at 8%, and £xxx.xx being the amount paid by ourselves for the claim made against you via Money Claim Online on xx.xx.2007. We have enclosed a copy of our letter before action together with a schedule of the charges and interest claimed.

Please note we are claiming £0.xx per day in interest at 8% until this matter is settled.

Bu the way, they will probably ignore it. They did mine.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just got a letter from heatons who I have been paying off this debt with for years. They said they were no longer dealing with the account as HSBC had asked for it back.

 

I called HSBC, who put me on to MCS their internal debt collectors. They told me that the account had been pulled back from Heatons so that it could be sold on in 8-10 weeks.

 

I asked who I should be paying and they said not to bother paying anybody until the new owner got in touch. I am concerned about this as I dont want any more bad credit, I am 1 year from getting rid of the last default and don't want another one from the new collector who buys the debt.

 

I want to keep paying somebody because I just want it cleared ASAP. Even though my outstanding court case would clear the balance I am prepared for the worst and a long wait.

 

I just returned the AQ and spoke to court manager and asked if the case was likely to be stayed (before I paid the £100 AQ fee) but he said that as far as he was concerned it was business as usual.

 

Still not contact whatsoever from DG solicitors...

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Firstly I would write to heatons asking for written confirmaiton of what they have told you....... 2nd I would also write to MCS asking exactly the same.............

 

have somethign in writing so they cannot claim at a later date , ect ect

 

 

dont worry about the no contact form DG in 7-8 months I have had 1 letter and that was to tell me they were applying for a stay. they did nto submit to the court or me what they were ordered to. this is normal for them.......

 

also think that the large amount of "hearing stay " request they are being hit with just now might have them a tad busy............lol

rockin all over the world

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  • 5 weeks later...

Got a letter from the court reminding saying HSBC were being given an extra 2 weeks to file their AQ, despite it being due by 6th August originally. They were already given a month extra till 6th September.

 

Looks like the judge hasn't got the balls to make a decision despite HSBC ripping the urine out of him, me and the whole court process.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I finally got a Judgement by default today throught the post today as the defendant didn't return their paperwork despite being given an extra 2 months to return!

 

I am going to issue the warrent of execution straight away as DG will obviously try and get it overturned. So I'll get in there fast. Which address do I send them? 1 Canada Square, London?

 

Its not as if I wanted the cash anyway, I only wanted them to settle my account with them, which is approximately the same amount as I am claiming and was previously collected for 2 years by Heatons but then 'mysteriously' was recalled to HSBC when I began the court action. Nobody at HSBC knows what is happening with the account now, they said it was going to be sold on but I have called a couple fo times to ask how to make monthly payments and they've said don't bother until the new owner writes to me.

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