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    • Yes. I'd be very interested to know how the defendant fared in putting forward the defence that the calaimant had been contributorily negligent by not keeping their cat under control. I'm aware that some people might find that fatuous, distracting or confusing, but the reality is that I'm not aware of any law that imposes a duty upon cat owners to keep their pets under control.  Whereas I believe the law does hold dog owners responsible for their dogs in public places. I'm not certain it was at all beneficial to the OP to suggest that blaming the claimant was a credible defence...
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    • Received a final demand today Final demand.pdf
    • Here is my final draft: I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in the claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act.   1.        The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date.   2.        I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment.   As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.   3.        The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’.  The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents.   4.        Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018.   5.        I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020.   6.        Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicotors is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’   7.        I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’.   8.        The claimant relies upon and exhibits a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement.   It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HH Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’.   The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause.   9.        Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not try to mislead the court.   10.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024
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Help with old uni debt please


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Hi,

I was referred to this site by a very helpful member of moneysavingexpert I have a long story that I will try and keep as short as possible.

My old uni contacted me in Oct 2006 on my Dads phone (when I was visiting) saying that I owed them tuition fees from my 3rd year (which I didn't attend) Oct 2003.

I had attended the college to sign the registry, however my cheque bounced and I was having financial difficulty at the time, so as I hadn't paid for the course didn't attend my final year.

I had been in contact with the uni debt collection dept in Feb 2005 when I settled an old library debt, and there was no mention from them at the time about the tuition fees.

Fast forward to Oct 2006, I told them (on the phone) I didn't believe I owed money for fees for a course I didn't attend.

Their solicitors have now filed court action against me, their claim was filed on 3-4-07, I sought legal advise and was told that I would have to admit the debt as I signed a contract (the registration papers), so I filled in the court papers admitting the debt and offering £1 per month. I sent these to the solicitors (copied letter to uni debt collection dept) asking them to stop the court action against me as I am currently unemployed and applying for jobs with financial institutions who will not employ me if I have a ccj (all true). They received this letter signed-for on 17-4-07.

I then got a really nasty letter back from uni debt collection dept saying that what I offered was not enough (even though I sent income/expenditure breakdown which clearly shows that I am in monthly deficit at the moment) and that they want £30 per month and they have instructed their solicitors to continue with court action.

I sent a letter to the Head of College 24-4-07 complaining about this whole thing and sent copies of the correspondence, I havn't heard back yet.

The thing is I think I have been wrongly advised to admit the debt as helpful person on MSE told me they havn't provided a copy of the contract, all this happened before I found any of these sites and I am very green as I have never been in trouble that results in court action before.

I am really worried about all this especially since my future employment prospects are threatened, and worried about losing my home as I have a mortgage and can't get housing benefit at moment, and have been told that the uni can apply to have the (supposed) debt attatched to my property.

Thanks for reading.

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Hi again tomterm8:)

 

1. Correct

 

2. No, i offered the £1 when they sent me the court papers as was advised to admit the debt and make the offer based on my current (lack of) income.

 

3. No, I havn't offered them anything else, was advised to wait for judgement.

 

4. They wrote back after I offered £1 saying they were continuing with court action.

 

5. No, never formally disputed, disputed over the phone with uni collections dept, legel advisor said I had to admit the debt. In the letter of complaint to the Head of College I stated that I don't beleive that I should be charged fees for tuition that I did not take, I didn't get any help with this letter, but can post content (excluding their personal details) if it helps.

 

6. Yes, I have been offered a temporary job ( 8 weeks part time so only helps income a bit) which would not be affected by action, the interview in 2 weeks for a permenant position which I REALLY want would not employ me if I have a ccj.

 

Thanks again for all your help tomterm8

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Can't afford to offer more, I am £300 per month in deficit with essential payments (mortgage, utilities, food), even with the temping job will still be (only just) in deficit.

 

I didn't put anything in writing when I left, I went in and spoke to my tutor, as far as I can remember they didn't ask for it in writing. I naively thought that as I didn't attend my 3rd year I didn't owe money.

 

The person who gave me the legal advise told me that the Judge would laugh my £1 offer out of court as it is not realistic as it is clear that I can't even afford that, she said that the Judge would award the uni the full amount, that the uni would then do searches to find what assets I have (which I will be charged for), then get the debt attatched to my property.

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Sorry to be a bit thick but what is a stay of judgement, and how does it work?

 

Nobody has ever mentioned this to me before, rubbish legal advisor said all I could do was admit debt and wait for judgement. I asked if it was worth defending the claim and going to the court to fight it, she said no, it would just cost me more in the long run as Judge is not interested in specifics of situation, just wether I signed the contract or not.

 

There is also no mention of this on the court letter, I did what it says under the title 'if you agree with the claim and are asking for time to pay' and sent my admission form to the solicitors with the offer of £1 per month.

 

What happens if I send the letter and ask the court for a stay and they refuse the offer again?

 

Thanks for all your help with this!

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Thanks again for all your help,

 

Will do the letter and contact the court first thing monday. Have just been searching hmcourt website and havn't found any info re: how much time there is between me sending admission and them taking me to court, will keep looking.

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Ooja, I think a call to Nationaldebtline might help you...just search for them through Google.

From what I've found out via trying to sort my own problems, if you have made a reasonable offer, taking into account your current financial circumstances, the Uni debt collection rejected it...if it does go to court it could be viewed that they have acted unreasonably. I note that your letter of complaint to Head of College has been ignored also!

 

I had a similar situation with a DCA who wouldn't accept what I could afford...so when they threatened court, I put this as part of a letter to them:

 

The commencement of legal proceedings under such circumstances could be counter to the 'Overriding Objectives' of the Civil Procedure Rules. You will be aware that 'Overriding Objectives' underpin everything the court does. Moreover, paragraph 4 of the Protocols Practice Direction states that in cases not covered by approved pre-action protocols, the court will expect the parties 'to act reasonably...in trying to avoid the necessity for the start of proceedings.'

I would suggest that your refusal to accept my offer could be viewved as unreasonable and I would ask the court to consider this matter with reference to the 'Overriding Objectives.'

 

The above might give you some food for thought, and on the whole even if a CCJ is granted judges don't order you to pay more than you can...but I do understand your reasons for wanting to avoid a CCJ. Infact it seems that by pursuing one the Uni debt collection dept would be shooting themselves in the foot! If you can't get that job..they can't get any money!

 

I haven't a clue as to whether Uni tuition fees come under the Consumer Credit Act...I went to Uni in the days when students weren't crippled by massive debts in order to get a higher education. Someone might know or you might be able to find out on some government website. I guess what I'm trying to say is...I don't know if its worth sending a CCA request.

 

Also may be worth finding out if your local CAB has a free legal advisor who may offer some valuable assistance in defending a CCJ. You need to mention that you were intimidated & harassed into admitting the debt...as from what I've read you didn't think you had one.

 

Good luck, Zim.

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Hi Zimmie,

 

Thanks for the post, I am in touch with National Debtline already and think I will call them on monday before I do anything else re: the fact that the uni rejected my offer.

 

The legal advise I was given was by a company I was referred to through the CAB!

 

When I made the £1 offer to the uni, I explained about the ccj being detrimental to my future employment, they don't give a stuff! The letter they sent back was very aggressive.

 

The letter of complaint I sent to the Head of College was only a few days ago, so am still hoping to get some sort of reply. I sent the letter off my own back and I'm not sure I am complaining to the right person. Has anyone else had this kind of problem before?

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Hello; most higher education institutions will offer pro-rata refunds if someone has paid the fees and wants to leave. Therefore if you have registered and then left, you should not be pursued for a full amount. Speak to your Student Union advice centre to find out what is the position on the pro-rata refunds.

Secondly, have you been assesed for any financial support towards your fees? Has this support been paid to your uni? Uni will only get the fee grants paid out for those still on register on 1st of December. You need to make sure that this was a case when you registered as I don't know how far this "1st of December" set up goes.

Next; unless you have formally withdrawn, the uni would have had you on the register. The fact that your cheque bounced is not very relevant because students usually are given few chances to pay their fees.

 

You need to gather the above info before your court appearance or if you wish to give an informed reply to the solicitors.

 

Every SU has an advice centre. The quality of SU advice centres is usually superb. The only snag you can hit is that you are no longer registered with this uni and the advice centres usually offer assistance to registered students. Therefore you need to either convince them that you are still entitled to their help by virtue of the issue (which arose when you were a student) or simply flatter and plead and bring flowers for the manager! ;)

Good Luck!

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Hi CourseRep,

 

Yes, the pro-rata refund is something I had thought happened, I also remember that my uni would allow students to pay their fees in instalments, paying for the first term in September, then the rest in January my friend did this. She was warned that if she couldn't pay the second instalment in Jan she would be kicked off the course, nobody said that she would still have to pay for the rest of the course anyway. I would love to see a copy of this instalment agreement.

 

I havn't been assessed for financial support for fees, don't know anything about this. The court papers say that the uni are claiming from 24-10-03 which is the date I am assuming they are saying that I ended the course.

 

I will try the SU, but as I have been told by legal advisor, they cannot help me as I am no longer a student.

 

I am really frustrated and confused by the fact that in Feb 2005, when I dealt with the library debt, they didn't tell me about these fees that would have been due 18 months earlier, someone told me that they have probably had an audit which brought it to their attention.

 

I feel such a fool for admitting the debt, I was trying to follow the best and quickest route to stop the court action. I wish there was some way of finding out if they can legally get away with charging people for services they havn't used. As Zimmie pointed out, it is difficult to know if they come under the CCA.

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Unfortunatly, I filled the forms in by hand and signed them......

 

Do you think I could put in a plea that I have a personality disorder that means I sign everything that is put in front of me even if I don't use the service/admit the claim? Its called 'panic and sign disorder' :D

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