Annie v Yorkshire Bank (Looking forward to this)

calam70 · June 1, 2006

Have just sat down and added up all my charges across a 6 year period with YB....am feeling seriously aggrieved now as this appears to coome to £2201!!!!!:o

However, at least now feeling pleased that I have been anally retentive type and saved all bank statements so no tug of war about getting them from the branch.

Sent request for repayment first letter off today to their Collections dept.

They closed my account last year when I was in real dire straights and I have been paying £150 a month against the outstanding balance ever since.

Imagine how it feels to work out that I owe them £1400 and they owe me £2200.

Maybe I can expect one of these £50 offers as a goodwill gesture that I read about somewhere else on this forum.

Good to have got the ball rolling....

barracad · June 1, 2006

Good luck - keep us updated.

Capt_Crackers · June 10, 2006

Just received first response today informing that I had agreed to the charges when I made my agreement with the bank.My account was closed and at collections and they have passed it back to the branch to deal with the issue of charges.....clearly a stalling tactic as eventually it will end up back at them.They then said theywould look into it.A week to go then until I send the letter before action....to both collections and the branch.

How does it sit if you owe the bank money and are disputing charges with them???

I pay them £150 a month towards clearing the outstanding balance on the account they closed.This stands at around £1450 and the charges weigh in at £2201....

I thought I would just keep on paying it to avoid any further hassles....anybody else in the same boat???

Anyway , they are clearly going to make it plenty difficult....keep you posted !

dan-rides-bikes · June 10, 2006

you can write and tell them that the debt is now in dispute and you will not be making further payment until it is resolved

if you keep making payments it will just go back in your pocket anyway as you will pocket the difference between the charges and the amount owed should your claim be fully succesful

calam70 · June 10, 2006

Cheers for reply....issued letter today (copied to world and his wife at YB to prevent stalling and sent by recorded delivery) informing YB that I would be suspending payments on the outstanding amount as I am now in official dispute with the bank about the amount.It will be interesting to see how they respond to that. I had been holding off with the latest payments while I got some advice.Amazing how they managed to write to me three times in one week isn't it!!!

LBA also due out on Fri 14th.....

calam70 · June 20, 2006

LBA winging it's way towards YB as we speak.

My complaint was referred back to the branch so am copying everyone who I have had correspondence from , in on the latest. Also suspended payments to them.

Previously, they have been very aggressive with even the slightest late payment....I have heard nothing from them on this front since I said that I was disputing all of it.So claim will go in ( with them having benefited from 21 days after the initial letter instead of 14) 5th July prompto.

Like many others, am feeling a whole lot better now I feel the balance is being redressed....too long feeling powerless against the bully boy tactics.....

Do they really think people will just lie down and change their minds....it's the principle of the thing.

Cheerio for now!

trundlecat · June 21, 2006

Do they really think people will just lie down and change their minds....it's the principle of the thing.

Yes they do. They're bullies & just can't seem to get it into their heads that their cash cows can fight back.

You shouldn't hear a thing from collections now & if they stick to their current form the 1st response to your request for refund will be an offer to write off what you owe them as "full and final settlement".

Keep at it

TC

calam70 · July 6, 2006

How people's claims are progressing makes interesting reading. I haven't seen YB appear once in the litigation concluded section as having settled any of the claims against them......Has anyone successfully pushed for charge repayment already???

I recieved this earlier in the week...looking at other people's posts it would appear that this is a standard letter...

Dear Miss Farrar,

I refer to your letter of 14June ..

During this time, the relationship between you and the bank was governed by the bank's standard terms and conditions, provided that:

You must obtain the bank's agreement before overdrawing on your account.

If the bank made payments from the account, or paid cheques which were guaranteed by the associated cheque guarantee card when there were insufficient funds available, any overdraft created or any overdraft which exceeded an agreed overdraft limit would be unauthorised.

If you drew cheques or authorised or made payments without sufficient money available in your account, taking account of any overdraft limit and allowing for uncleared cheques, the bank might return the payments and made a charge for doing so.

Charges and interest applicable to the account were published in the form of tariffs and up-to-date tariffs were available in branches and from time to time enclosed with bank statements.

Where appropriate, written details of overdraft charges and debit interest incurred on the account during the previous charging period (ie the previous month) would be sent to you at least 14 days before the charges and interest were deducted from your account.

If the account had an unauthorised overdraft, additional charges might be levied which would be debited to the account on the day on which the unauthorised overdraft was created.

I would note that the terms and conditions complied with all relevant requirements of the Banking Code.

You are responsible for the running of your account and for ensuring that sufficient funds are in your account to meet standing orders, direct debits and cheques which you have created or drawn on the account. As stated in the terms and conditions governing your account with the bank, you are aware that charges will be incurred if insufficient funds are in your account on the dates the payments you instructed are debited. The charges applied to your account were applied in accordance with the terms and conditions, as a result of the operation of your account.

Further, the terms and conditions were fair, having regard to the following matters:

The cost to the bank of maintaining administrative systems relating to unauthorised overdrafts, unpaid cheques and direct debits and abuse of cheque and debit cards for the purpose of keeping the level of overdrawing under review and controlled as far as possible.

The increased risk of loss to the bank arising from such unauthorised transactions and the associated cost of enforcement and recovery systems.

The need to operate standard procedures and to set standard charges in order to avoid the substantial costs of individual assessment in relation to each particular case.

Taking all of the above into account and having regard to the information that you have given, I am not prepared to refund the charges on your account.

I have enclosed for your information, a copy of our internal complaint handling procedures and how to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service etc...

If we do not receive a response form you within eight weeks of the date of this letter, your complaint will be considered closed.

* * * * *

It's interesting that the lovely Neil has used the terminology " I am not prepared to refund the charges on your account".

I had written to J.Sutcliffe (their in -house collection agency) explaining that I was susplending paymnets against tmy o/s account with them until the action was resumed yet they have started to pester me with letters again.

Lovely of them to totally ignore my letter(rec mail of course) and carry on regardless.

It starts to become clearer and clearer...that YB are up there at the top of the list for appalling service and excessive charges,I am way behing with my schedules due to normal pile up of work at the edn of term(teacher!!!) and they have now had over 4 weeks to prodcue a positive response to my LBA.

LBA goes tomorrow with MOneyclaim now goin in on the 21st.

I am keeping an eye on how people are getting on who have had defences posted agianst them. ALL THE BEST!!!!

Will update after LBA deadline expires and MOney claim has been 'launched'

Annie

caro · July 7, 2006

I guess that in the summer holidays you will be busy getting your money back then. :rolleyes:

Andy Wade · July 7, 2006

LBA winging it's way towards YB as we speak.
My complaint was referred back to the branch so am copying everyone who I have had correspondence from , in on the latest. Also suspended payments to them.

Previously, they have been very aggressive with even the slightest late payment....I have heard nothing from them on this front since I said that I was disputing all of it.So claim will go in ( with them having benefited from 21 days after the initial letter instead of 14) 5th July prompto.

Like many others, am feeling a whole lot better now I feel the balance is being redressed....too long feeling powerless against the bully boy tactics.....

Do they really think people will just lie down and change their minds....it's the principle of the thing.

Cheerio for now!

When they closed your account, did they also default you on your credit report?

If so, you should also make sure that they remove this as well. Not 'satisfied', but removed. Accept nothing less.

There are other threads about this on the forum.

Andy Wade · July 7, 2006

Yes they do. They're bullies & just can't seem to get it into their heads that their cash cows can fight back.

You shouldn't hear a thing from collections now & if they stick to their current form the 1st response to your request for refund will be an offer to write off what you owe them as "full and final settlement".

Keep at it

TC

Bullies and Cash Cows.

Like it, nice analogy.

calam70 · July 14, 2006

Despite writing to Collections twice stating that i was suspending payments against the outstanding amount on my closed account,(I owe £1500, I am claiming £2200) i have just received a letter from YB saying that I have ignored letters and correspondence and they are about to inititiate legal proceedings to recover the amount.They haev aasked me to repay in full or they will litigate.

It is they who have totally ignored my correspondence and failed to acknowledge that I have written to them twice to state that I am suspending payments to them as a result of my pending legal action. Claim will go in against them next week, so I willhave made a move to prosecute first.I wrote to them to state my intention clearly on June 1st.

YB are clearly the worst of a pretty bad bunch. This week both Co-Op and Barclays settled with my partner at the LBA stage.YB seem to be determined to go all the way with their claimants.Am a little worried that they are submitting defences against all who progress byond the LBA stage.Do they know something the others don't.

I have kept all my letters and proofs of posting, so will be able to prove that I have made many attempts to contact them and inform them of my intentions.

They have a history of completely ignoring any direct letter communication that I send to collections, despite it having been sent recorded and been signed for.

Are they behaving ethically by ignoring communication and conducting things in their gung-ho way ??? God I wish I had opened an account anywhere apart with the Yorkshire.They really are the pits.

Still the sun is shining and there's a beer or two in the fridge!!!

norvernrob · July 14, 2006

You're right there, they are the worst and most unethical company I have ever had the displeasure to deal with. They defaulted my loan, waited until my wages went in which paid back my overdraft and then closed my account all in the same day with zero notice, no letter, no phone call, nothing.

Anyway on to your dilemma. I'm not sure how you stand with regards to stopping the legal action, If they are going to default you (if they haven't already) and you are in dispute you can stop the default. If it has gone beyond that already i'm not sure where you stand - could a counterclaim for the amount they owe you be a possibility?

trundlecat · July 14, 2006

Calam - you need to write to customer services (Niel McKirdy) & tell him about collections not ceasing their activities despite it being a clear breach of the banking code. Write it as a complaint, completely seperate from you charges claim.

Write another latter to collections, send it recorded delivery & make sure you get the following 3 points in there somewhere:

1. "The funds in question are in dispute, I demand you adhere to the banking code & cease all action regarding the collection of these funds immediately. Should it be proved I do indeed owe this money I will then pay off the amount but will not offer you one penny more before a ruling is reached".

2. Tell them that any queries they have regarding this money be directed to their head office or customer services department as it is they you are corresponding & dealing with regarding this matter. As a result of this you expect to hear nothing further from them unless your court case goes against you.

3. Tell them that their letters attempting to collect the money are casuing you "significant alarm, harassment & distress" (you may need to refer back to this later on in the game).

YB collections are like trained animals, they won't/can't make any descisions about accounts themselves, you won't get anywhere with them, you need to get customer services to call them off unless you have a court reference number you can quote at them & this gags them immediately.

calam70 · July 14, 2006

Thanks for your reply and support.Very helpful to have others give you their take on things.....will keep you posted.

Meanwhile, good luck to all those with claims in the pipeline.

Annie

calam70 · July 21, 2006

I posted off my LBA a few weeks ago and recently sent a further letter to Customer Relations (Neil) complaining about the behaviour of Collections as per the advice given me.I also followed advice and wrote again to Collections....this time in no uncertain terms telling them to back off and stop trying to collect payments which I had made it clear I had suspended.

I received an offer of £1100 today...which is half the amount that I am claiming for. I haven't read about anybody else been made offers..... They made no admission of liability ...reiterated that the charges were down to my poor running of my account.

They also said that should I not accept the offer and go on to win my action, that they have grounds for a counter claim against me for violating the contract I signed for the conduct of my account.

They have sent me copies for their records of the acceptance letter and are urging for full and final settlement purely to save legal charges etc..

I would love to know if anybody else had received a similar reply as most of the threads I am following would suggest that defences are being filed and people are having to pursue this to the bitter end....

dan-rides-bikes · July 21, 2006

your the 2nd person today who got a half offer

someone also had a counterclaim similar to what you stated, check some of the longer threads

calam70 · July 26, 2006

Just wondered if anyone has advice on the counter claim front.Here's the headlines from my last letter from YB:

* Charges my fault as result of poor account manangment.

* Charges are documented and I would have had a copy of these.

* If I was successful in my claim the bank would ' have a claim against you for damages suffered as a result of your breach of contract in failing to adhere to the terms and conditions of the account.Such a claim would incur court costs and interest for which you may beheld liable.'

* Bank is full of goodwill and want to settle without court action and are therefore offering half the claimed amount of £2200 for full and final settlement.

£1100 in other words.

* The offer is 'without prejudice' ....in other words I can't say that they offered me that amount to settle when I go to court but if I do win my case the bank can use the offer as evidence for them in the determinatation of costs.

* Bank mention their goodwill and willingness to settle out of court several times.

I am about to raise my Moneyclaim this week and wanted to get some opinions before I soldiered on.

It doesn't seem right to me that the bank can threaten a counter claim.Surely if they had anything worth saying it should come out in MY case and help them to win it rather than having to take out a seperate action.

Can this be referred to as a threatening and unprofessional action?

Isn't the issue that the penalties are far too high for an automated action and despite being warned by professional bodies about the level of these charges .the bank continues to raise them against their customers??

I wondered if it might work against me that they have offered me 50% of the claim at this stage.Would this affect a final settlement by a judge???

I didn't really like the 'without prejudice' working totally in their favour.I know I can't mention the amount offered in an 'open ' reply letter but can they get away with threatening a counter claim ?

Is it worth responding to their threat ?

I am planning to replay and 'repsectfully' decline their offer drawing their attention to my Prelim letter and LBA request for payment in full.The LBA asks for details of manual intervention where applicable and they have provided nothing on this front.

My letter will also indicate that I have gone ahead and raised a Moneyclaim against them.

Will wait for some support/advice/feedback.

cheers.

calam70 · August 5, 2006

The saga continues.....YB are still adamant that they wont be paying any fees back.Just had another crappy letter back from them saying that they won't playball.....time to go to Moneyclaim I feel.....

They say.....

"The Office of Fair Trading made comment on 'late payment fees' levied by credit card issuers.There has been no ruling or investigation on charges relating to current accounts.

As regards such charges, there is a cost to the Bank in returning an item unpaid or making payment where no overdraft facility exists, which these charges cover.Our tariff of charges, having been advised to customers when their account was opened and re-advised from time to time by way of statement insert is incorporated into the contract betwen the Bank and the its customers.The application of the appropriate fee or fees when a customer fails to leave sufficient funds in the account to meet items drawn against it it therefore in accordance with the terms and conditions of the contractual relationshop governing the account.

You state that our charges are excessive which implies that the charge itself is merited.It is interesting, therefore, that you believe a full refund shouldbe made.

My offer of a refund of £1,100 will not be increased and remains opne of acceptance by the signing and returning of a copy of my letterof 19 July.

The letter is written without prejudice to the bank blah, blah, blah"

This just made me so hopping mad.It is very easy to see in the litigation concluded section that many banks do feel they should take this on board and settle reasonably with their clientele.I am waiting to see the first if the actions against them go through ....some of the stays they have applied for on people's cases should expire soon.

They are so slippery and underhand.£2440 in charges is unfair.All for exceeding a £150 overdraft!!!! I remember them being totally unwilling to listen or bend at all and slapping £35 debit under advice fees onto my account all over the place , followed by a side helping of £8 daily fees and a follow-up dessert of £25 monthly fee. Their letter really did say to me that they are in no way considering their position in terms of these fees and really do expect to be able to defend their position and fees in court.

What I could do with right now is one of those coconut-shy type things where you pay 50p and step up and try to break as much crockery as possible to help with the frustration factor.Value for money!!!!!

calam70 · September 4, 2006

MOney Claim filed today......had to save up!

No doubt will be eating beans for a month but will be worth it.

The interest came to £661....can't believe they would allow that to be added on by not settling earlier!!

calam70 · September 8, 2006

Intent to defend received today and no surprises for guessing that its that ever-so-busy lady Kirstie Ann Ross at the helm for Yb !!

calam70 · September 10, 2006

Yorkshire Bank closed my account last year and I have been making monthly payments since then to clear the balance. When I started my action against them in June , I wrote to inform that I was suspending payments as the balance was the subject of legal dispute.I was still getting threatening letters from Jeremy Sutcliffe, their inhouse collections agency.They ignored all my letters and kept sending new threats saying I had ignored all their communications.I had replied to them many times and had proof of reply.

One of the MODs came to my rescue (Trunny I think) and told me to write to Neil in Customer relations and ask them to stop this collections activity as it contravened the banking code, I did this and Collections stopped straight away.I had copied all their crappy letters and my ignored replies to Neil.

Two weeks ago, I received a letter from a different agency, Fairhalsen collections. They gave me seven days to pay the balance and threatened court action. I wrote back to them , copying Neil and group Collections restating my position and saying that it was subject of a legal dispute etc, etc,etc. I kept proof of posting.

Today I recieved a letter saying that I had failed to respond to their communications ( i replied) and as a result if I didn't pay in seven days one or all of the following could be expected to happen.

1. We shall assess your financial situation and your ability to discharge the debt by obtaining a full means statement of your income and expenditure.

2. We shall undertake enquiries to establish if your employment status meets with our guidelines for an Attachment of Earnings to be carried out.

3. We shall instruct an agent to call at your home address to assess your ability to repay the outstanding amount.

Am I wrong in thinking that they can't do 1 or 2 without taking this to court???

Are they allowed to carry on regardless despite the fact that they have ackowledged my claim and intend to defend??? This letter from the agency was dated two days after they acknowledged my claim through MCOL.

Do I have grounds for a complaint here???

I have already written to Customer Relations and Fairhalsen complaining about the first letter and have receievd no acknowledgement of this letter at all from Customer Relations and an even worse letter from Fairhalsen.

I know these are tactics designed to scare me off and i should expect no better from YB but am a bit stressed by it.

Just a bit stuck as to what to do next on this one and would really love some advice.....Cheers!!

calam70 · September 11, 2006

i copied this last post from my old thread as nobody replied......i know people are mega busy but a little advice would be welcome

Re: Annie v Yorkshire Bank HELP PLEASE!!!! Yorkshire Bank closed my account last year and I have been making monthly payments since then to clear the balance. When I started my action against them in June , I wrote to inform that I was suspending payments as the balance was the subject of legal dispute.I was still getting threatening letters from Jeremy Sutcliffe, their inhouse collections agency.They ignored all my letters and kept sending new threats saying I had ignored all their communications.I had replied to them many times and had proof of reply.