demonlady -v- HSBC ***WON***

[demonlady]

Hello everyone

This is my first post. I have been reading with much interest about all the cases going on against HSBC and therefore kinda pushed my husband into claiming all his bank charges back from them. I hope he'll thank me for it in the end but basically I'm doing it for him and want to make sure everything I've done is right as I've just had a mild panic as I notice many people sent copies of the charges they have claimed to the court, HSBC and DG. I didn't get him to do that until this week (along with one of your wonderful letters saying sure DG would like to avoid going to court, etc).

 

Here is a quick breakdown of what's happened so far (hubby did all the phone calls :grin:):

 

1. 11th Feb 07 - Letter to HSBC requesting all charges returned. Total was £2,498.75 plus interest of £377.57 (used your lovely online form for calculating that) amounting to £2,876.32. Gave them 14 days.

2. 20th Feb 07 - Letter to HSBC reminding them they had less than 7 days to reply and what the claim was for.

3. 21st Feb 07 - Received letter from Colin Langdale saying he will investigate the matter and respond.

4. Tried to call Colin Langdale repeatedly and fed up being left on hold. Tried a final time on 7th Mar 07 and was left on hold for 32 minutes and still not got through. Tried to reach own branch in Staines and number directed to a call centre in Malta where no-one could help. Issued MCOL for charges, interest and £120 fees now coming to £2,996.32. Also charging 63p per day in interest from this point until settlement.

5. Received Notice of Issue and copy of Claim Form saying it was issued on 8th Mar 07 and would be deemed to have been served on 13th March. HSBC had until 27th Mar 07 to reply.

6. Letter from HSBC, Colin Langdale again, on 16 Mar 07 saying not fully completed his investigations, would have a full response by 14 Apr 07.

7. Acknowledgment of Service by DG dated 16 Mar 07. Intend to defend all of the claim.

8. Watched MCOL and on 11th April hit the Judgment button and it all went through!!:grin:

9. Notice of Judgment Rejected came through the post a few days later, dated 11th Apr 07 saying "case status is set" .

10. Notice of Transfer of Proceedings dated 11th Apr 07 arrived saying a defence to this claim has been filed. Transferred to Guildford County Court. The filing of an Allocation Questionnaire was dispensed with unless District Judge at the court orders otherwise.

 

Defence from DG was:

 

"1. The Claimants account is governed by the Defendants personal and/or business banking terms and conditions.

2. Pursuant to the Defendants terms and conditions the Defendant is entitled to make a charge for its services as set out in the Defendants price list, including an overdraft review fee for considering whether to provide and providing and overdraft. (their spelling mistake! :grin:..lots of '?' instead of apostrophies too!)

3. The Defendant denies that the charges applied to the Claimants account amount to penalties at common law and/or unfair contract terms for the purposes of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCRs).

4. The charges applied to the Claimants account are reasonable and are properly and fully disclosed in the Defendants terms and conditions and published price list. The charges represent the contractually agreed price for the services provided and the UTCCRs are not applicable to them; alternatively, they are not unfair contrary to the UTCCRs. Further, the charges are not default charges and, accordingly, cannot amount to a penalty.

5. Save as set out above, each and every allegation made by the Claimant is denied. For the reasons set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief."

 

11. Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track from Guildford County Court received, dated 17 Apr 07 with hearing date of 10.30am on 14th June 2007. Bundles to be sent to both sides at least 14 days beforehand.

12. Letter to DG Solicitors, 18th Apr 07, quoting claim number, court date, etc, (letter that you suggest) stating "..mindful of the vast number of claims..." and asking for £2,996.32 + £100 Allocation Fee plus interest at £27.09 totalling £3,123.41 to be paid by cheque in full and final settlement.

13. Tried to call DG but no response. Hubby refused to leave a message on their voicemail.

 

So, minor panic...ok, MAJOR PANIC...do you think hubby will get any kind of offer or will he end up going to court?

 

I'm so encouraged by all the support and help everyone on this forum has given each other that I thought I'd join and see if I've done the right thing for my fella.

 

Like most people here, a lot of his charges built up by going over his overdraft and being charged penalty fees on top of one another, often £100-200 per month when it would have cost them nothing for him to go about £20 over his overdraft to pay the Direct Debit in the first place rather than than charge £25 refusal fee and £30 for going over the overdraft! They also let him go over it a number of times, paying the amounts then charging him £10 for 'misuse of card' then bumping the charges on top after a few days!!

 

Any advice/help anyone can give I would very much appreciate.

 

Sorry for such a long-winded first post....phew....

 

 

I put the post here as Louis kindly said he'd get a PM to move it for me today but I accidentally put it into the welcome slot - goes to show how my brain is non-functioning right now! Sorry folks but I wanted to get response from other HSBC-ers for my hubby a.s.a.p.

[katesage]

Hiya Demonlady

 

Welcome to CAG:)

 

It sounds like you have the claim pretty much under control, it's a standard claim with no complications, so......you should start getting offers very soon.

 

As the court date is some 2months away, there is plenty of time still for you to keep up the pressure and get your money.

It wont end up in court, which you know already:D So dont worry, your settlement will be coming soon.

 

Loads of luck

[demonlady]

Thanks Kate. It's always a concern that you'll be the first in that court that the bank decides to turn up to! Here's hoping for a letter from DG before the date. We have all the bundle information ready anyway (most of it we used when making the claim!).

 

Great to see all the support on this site. It really cheers you up and let's you know you're not alone.

[nettyg]

one small point... you can't claim for the allocation questionnaire as it was dispensed with and not required. apart from that - you're doing a grand job. good luck and hopefully your money will be with you before 14th June.

[demonlady]

Thanks Nettg. The £100 was the Allocation fee for the small claims track that the court requested. It had to be paid by 30th April so posted it to them quickly!

 

My hubby came up with an definition of the acronym HSBC - Horrendous So*ding Bank Charges ...did make me laugh

[Castlebest]

Oh brilliant, the court dispense with the AQ but still charge you, I think they have been talking to HSBC about charges

No I’m not going to suggest suing the court for return of unlawful charges that’s wayyyyy to silly HSBC pick up the tab when they settle anyway.

Good luck Demonlady but you wont need it DG will send you an offer well before your court date.

pete

[HSBCrusher]

Oh brilliant, the court dispense with the AQ but still charge you, I think they have been talking to HSBC about charges

lol!

 

I think the courts need to justify the fees as well as the banks!

[Castlebest]

Well I think its a job for you Crush no way am I gonna do it

 

pete

[demonlady]

I never thought of it like that before - the court charging for something they aren't having to process or do any real work on! Classy I do hope everyone is right and we get an offer. My hubby has closed his account (well, he still owes overdraft but said he'll pay that back when we gets the cheque from them and officially shut the account then - has moved his money to another bank!). We were both scared if he let his salary go in they'd take it all and close the account anyway with the action he's taking. I wonder if he's still racking up charges We did send a Recorded Delivery letter to them saying no payments were to be made from the account and all DD and S/O payees had been advised of new details. They wrote back and said they would not stop all payments! Can you believe that? As there is no money in the account, nothing can be paid surely...No wonder people have such huge debts with HSBC acting that way.

[nettyg]

lol!

 

I think the courts need to justify the fees as well as the banks!

 

crusher... you've got too much time on your hands lol - feel free:eek:

[demonlady]

Folks, looking for a bit of advice here. Since posting originally, haven't had any offer from DG. I know a lot of people seem to have had these quite quickly but so far my hubby hasn't even had an acknowledgement. He wrote on 18th April and to date diddly-squat! Do you think that this will go to Court or is it just that they are so inundated? I know many other people on this site have had offers in the early stages but he's had no correspondence with them at all - having said that, he won't entertain calling them up and discussing over the phone as he says he's had enough of HSBC to last him a lifetime and has no intention of having any correspondence that he cannot later refer to (ie. letter only really).

 

I can't blame him. Having once called up and ended up in the call centre in India, he was told by the phone-jockey that "you have a good income and really should learn to manage your money better. The bank has been most magnanimous in allowing you to go over your overdraft and charging so little for it". I know what I'd have told that person but he was more polite...just!

 

I look forward to any advice the folk here can give.

 

Thank you.

[lateralus]

just send another nudge and a breakdown. every 10 days.

 

post one on these two threads for ideas:When you have filed your AQ................

New---after 28 Days - Maybe No Aq!!!!!!!

BBC NEWS | Business | Judge attacks 'time-wasting' bank this one, i just like!

[Castlebest]

That last thread Lattie posted is a must read for you as you have a court date, looks like fun

 

pete

[demonlady]

Very interesting Don't you just love how the courts are getting so fed up with these banks! Another letter winging it's way to DG as Lattie suggested. Thank you.

[demonlady]

Folks, slightly bigger panic happening now. Still nothing from DG. Not even an acknowledgment of the letters. Going to prepare Court bundle next week. Bit concerned. Anyone had them leave it this late? Having a horrid feeling they'll make the first appearance for this case

[lateralus]

am i misreading you posts - court bundle due 14 days before 14 june - so, 1 june - way to early to start all that copying.

i was just responding earlier to one who needs the paperwork in on 21 may and saying send a last ditch nudge to dg and do it about next thursday if no response - so yours is due 1 june - don't start chopping down all those trees yet!!!!

i know you've sent a couple of letters to dg and i know they don't answer - so my third letter suggestion gets a little more shirty with them - like - i don't think you have any intention of dealing with this until forced by the courts - blah, blah,

just keep on being available for negotiations and point out the the courts would appreciate you settling and hint at how the courts will view all your attempts to settle much more favourably than their silence and how disappointed you are with their procrastinating contact with you.

 

think of it as good news - really - because, in theory you will get an offer from dg before they would ever put all the evidence required in front of the court - so looks like you'll have your offer by 1 june - (but get that stuff prepared if no offer has been made about 5 days before)

 

here's what you would need:

 

 

a) your schedule of charges. (ie a copy of your spreadsheet)

b) your statements showing the charges. Alternatively, the list of charges which the bank provided under your S.A.R (subject Access Request) (only send the statements with charges on them.)

c) A Statement of Evidence: (post 55 in the new strategy): New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

d) All the statutes and decided cases on which your claim relies. ie, UTCCR's, UCTA's, SOGA, case law, etc. For this, I'd just submit the whole of the Basic Court Bundle.

 

This whole thing runs to around 200 pages and should be done in triplicate: one copy for you, one for the court and one for dg – that’s 600 pages of copying – LEAVE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW FOR SURE YOU NEED IT. If an offer comes in from DG and is accepted you wouldn’t need it. Really leave it until you have to do it to meet the deadline set by the court!

[demonlady]

No, you're not misreading. I just like to get everything prepared in case someone says it's 'out of time' or some such thing. Guess I'm being a bit over eager.

 

One thing though. My hubby helped someone else who had this problem with HSBC also. He wrote the letters, got the same court date as us, same time, same court (says something don't you think?!) and he's had an offer already from them today! We have not even had an acknowledgment from DG.

 

Hubby got bank statement through today and they're still adding charges to it despite the fact he told them he was doing this and would not deal with them anymore. Panic!!!!!

 

Can anyone advise?

[demonlady]

Does anyone know about the 1980 Limitations Act allowing you to claim beyond the 6 years? I've heard about this but wonder if anyone has a link to the section of the act applicable?

[Castlebest]

Once your court date is set it is set in stone untill you tell the court you have accepted an offer and the money is in your hand so it cant move.

 

All you need to do now is maybe make a list of what you will need for your court bundle so if/when the time comes you will know exactly what you are doing.

 

It has always been quite common for District Judges to do some strange things when allocating court time, we have seen cases allocated with one minute for a hearing, who can blame the judges we all know the court wont be used.

 

I suspect you will get your offer at the latest 15 days before the court date, this will give you a week to accept the offer and DG 10 days to get the money to you although I dont think even DG would want to cut it that fine.

 

pete

[demonlady]

Thanks Pete. It's a worry that other people have started claims later and already had settlements. My neice wrote to HSBC branch direct twice and got over £2,000 payout within 10 days! It makes you think they know something about you that you don't realise yourself! We are worrying that hubby will be the 'one' to go the full court route and lose :o

[lateralus]

absolutely not.

have you written any nudge letters - it serves a couple of purposes -

it lets dg know that you know what is going on, ie, court dates, dispensing with aq, whatever

it makes sure your case file didn't fall down behind some desk as each letter will be filed with your claim

and it reminds them of any upcoming court dates that they may want to avoid

and it shows that you are doing all the running which could be very handy should a judge want to know/see that at any point.

you can prove that you are doing your best to get their attention (without harassing them with telephone calls).

 

so, write a nudge - and my advice is nudge every 10-14 days until they offer. for ideas for nudge letters - look at my two aq threads in my signature - post 1 on both.

and send a breakdown with every letter.

 

there is no rhyme or reason why some get their money back after the first or second letter and others go right up to the court date - i've been watching for clues for months and can't see any pattern. just nudge, and nudge again and refer to court dates and any paperwork - especially if they haven't done something. you'll get there.

[demonlady]

Thanks Lateralus. We have now sent 3 nudge letters with breakdowns. The latest is Recorded Delivery and also by Fax so we have a fax receipt. I think hubby was worried as he owes the bank his overdraft still and they are busy adding charges to that as it's unpaid until they pay up, despite the fact he said he'd pay when this was settled as they owe him more than he owes them! Guess they want all of their money back when they pay out! ;-)

 

We both so appreciate this site. I'm not overly active in replying to other people's posts (don't think I know enough yet to advise others!) but read a lot with interest.

 

Thank you for your continued support and help.

[Castlebest]

No one looses. you are with CAG we always win

 

pete

[lateralus]

bet you know more than the newbies in the welcome forum - try your hand at pointing them to the faqs and step by step instructions - there are always lots on there with 0 replies - that means no one has got to them yet. it's really very satisflying to help others onto the right track.

[demonlady]

Got letter today from DG Solicitors offering full amount, plus costs, plus interest to the date of their letter WHOOPIE!!!!

 

Just a couple of questions:

 

1. We said we want the payment via cheque as we don't want it paid into hubby's account with HSBC. Will they honour this as the letter says "we will arrange for a refund to be made to you." in terms of if you accept. Will they try and pay into the account or can we insist on a cheque?

 

2. The final paragraph that you have to sign reads "If this matter has been listed for a County Court hearing, I authorise DG Solicitors to inform the Court that this matter has been settled and the hearing may be vacated." Should we agree this or state that WE will advise the Court ONCE the cheque has been received?

 

I am guessing we don't have a leg to stand on if they pay back into the account but we don't want them to stop the hearing then decide to change their minds or we lose all the money in the overdraft and charges that have accrued since we started this.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.