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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Ntl Complaints


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Hi all

 

Having been a customer of BT for over 25 years when I moved I thoughts I'd take money management and save money with NTL.

 

When I took on the service I was assured that in the case that I moved I would not be held to the years contract if it wasnt possible for any reason (including moving into temp accommodation) I would not be held to the 1 years contract and there would be no penalties. This was important as I only had a 6 month rental agreement and was getting married to an Australian and may move countries.

 

Away its now 8 months on and I am moving due to the landlady needing to sell, I am moving in with friends and the short term and so have no need for the NTL line. When I contacted them to disconnect they informed me I was liable for the year and that I could if I wanted to have a refund from them for the remainder 3 months when I would not be using the service for up to 2 years when I reconnected with them. I was extremely annoyed and when I asked for the name of the person who sold me the line was told that there isnt that information available and I would never have been told this. So he was basically calling me a liar. He then went on to say that I should record conversations with people so I would have proof. I asked him to hold a second whilst I started to record our conversation at which point he said I am putting you through to customer services and our conversation is over.

 

When he put me through after holding for about 15 mins the lady at the other end was extremely unhelpful and would not pass me on to her manager and gave me a nameless customer complaint address to write to.

 

I believe they have mis-sold me the service and have complained to Ofcom.

 

Speaking at 3 other people who have taken on services with Ntl now Virginmedia - I was informed all had an issue and have moved to BT.

 

These involved:

 

- being disconnected whilst on calls

- trying to get through in the first place often 15- 20 mins waiting time

- being hung up on

- rude and unhelpful staff

 

I have had all the above problems in the past, but given this issue now have decided that under no circumstances will I use NTL in the future.

 

Can anyone who has had isssues reply, it would perhaps help resolve this one.

 

Thanks

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Well, it's all Virgin now. The 12 month minimum contract is standard (unless you were on a 'student' deal which covers a reduced period) this can be useful as you could try to get them to put you on this and reduce the minimum term. Of all the complaints you mentioned, NTL/Virgin don;t have a monopoly on bad service or rude staff, so there's little point in making a declaration of unhappiness, you've only got 2 choices (1 if you live in Hull) so there's not much anyone can do.

 

As to your minimum term assurance, can you back this up in any way? Or did you note this when you returned the signed contract? IF you did, there is no problem, refer them to it. IF you didn't, then you agreed to their terms, irrespective of what the salesman said on the phone (unless you recorded it).

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The twelve months contracts are worthless, I found success with well I'm leaving on X date so if you want the box etc...

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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Hi purplekim

 

"when I asked for the name of the person who sold me the line was told that there isnt that information available and I would never have been told this"

 

Being an ex NTL employee (Networks thank god, not CS) the amount of times customers complained about this very same thing that happened to you is scary!

 

Sales think they're a law unto themsleves and will tell you anything you want to hear if it gets them a sale and thus commission!

 

However, as for there being no record of the salesperson, what a load of bull! They will be a footprint in whichever billing system you're on left by the salesperson!

 

Now if its the DTV service you're trying to cancel you may be in luck. Since Virgin Media (NTL/Telewest rebranded) have dropped certain SKy channels I believe you can quote the T & C and get out of the contract penalty free..

 

Read through some of the threads here for more info: Cable Forum

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Buzby you miss my point! first of indebtstudent is far from my name or a description of my circumstances. It's a name which bears no relation for the simple reason that I do not wish to be identified being a Nationwide employee and all.

 

My point was that the whole 12 month contract line is, when questioned, a load of rubbish. They insist YOU MUST pay but if you stand your ground they back down. It's a little like banks selling stuff to people and capitalising on thier ignorance of the way financial products work.

 

Furthermore in this case the member contends that she is mislead which gives even more reason to be firm with them as it is hardly her fault.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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However, as for there being no record of the salesperson, what a load of bull! They will be a footprint in whichever billing system you're on left by the salesperson!

 

I do believe they meant the information was available, but the information would not be disclosed to the customer. My NTL SAR had all the name details blanked off so I could not identify staff directly, with others it was a reference code that identified the agent, so should further identification be required, then Virgin would be in a position to pursue the matter, so it really isnt a 'big' deal.

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My point was that the whole 12 month contract line is, when questioned, a load of rubbish.

 

I can;t see why you feel this is the case - the contract is clearly for 12 months minimum term, it always has been. Negotiation may be possible, but it at the discretion of the company and not a 'right', so bearing in mind the horrors if these casual 'defaults', it is better not to play fast an loose. As to it being mis-sold - then evidence that the OP didn't enter into a 12 month contract would been to be proffered in support of the assertion - surely that would be easy enough?

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I can;t see why you feel this is the case - the contract is clearly for 12 months minimum term, it always has been.

 

If I cancel during the first 12 months, I'm not paying them for the remainder. Look at it the other way - if they decided to withdraw service during the first 12 months, they wouldn't pay me for the remaining months, so I don't see why I should pay them.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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Makes me wonder why you'd agree to a contract if you've no intention of keeping to your agreement. Following this logic I suppose you feel a Marriage Contract can be treated with the same disregard?

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That is a question you should be asking VM, not me. For the last three months, they've been billing me for a service they've not provided. When I pull out in June, it will be they who pay me for the outstanding period, if at all.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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Virgin lets customers out of contracts

Virgin lets customers out of contracts

 

''Another report on this subject''

 

Virgin Media will allow customers in to cease subscribing to the company's services and switch to another provider even if they are locked into a contract.

 

The announcement comes after the National Consumer Council, which has statutory powers to alert regulators to issues it deems to be contrary to the interests of consumers, threatened to intervene in the ongoing carriage dispute between Virgin and Sky. This afternoon, Virgin said that it "strongly" agreed with the NCC's assertion that "there are flaws in the UK pay TV market which are harming the interests of consumers," and added that "an investigation is warranted."

 

The company emphasised that "the withdrawal of Sky's basic channels does not breach our agreement with customers" but said that it will allow customers to cancel their contracts "at any time up to the end of March."

 

"Virgin Media wants to do the right thing by its customers and resolve this dispute, as well as its underlying causes," said Virgin Media CEO Steve Burch. "We think our customers will quickly recognise that the improvements we've recently made to our TV service, together with other exciting enhancements we've got in the pipeline, make Virgin Media's TV service the most comprehensive and exciting in the UK. Over the next month, however, if they don't agree, we will not use technical legalities to stand in the way of them switching to another service. Among both our customers and the public as a whole, we believe there is a significant groundswell of support for our decision to stand up to Sky: we are determined to ensure it is the customer that benefits from our determination to do so."

 

Virgin have also announced that a "major movie promotion" will be made available to existing TV customers "to address any concern over the loss of Sky's channels."

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Hi all, not got much time so ill give you your answer and my story as quick as poss.

 

~NTL

signed up with ntl, explained im on a 6 month rental agreement so i may be moving, they said it was fine i can take it with me free, i explained i may be moving to a non ntl cabled area they said then the contract will be cancelled. anyways i moved got chased for £180 6 months contract for ever and a day, nobody would help just got passed person to person

 

anyway how i sorted it. on the back of the bill is a number for ofcom i phoned and told my problem they gave me an address to write to, i didnt bother just phoned back a couple of weeks later and told them id had no reply the lady at ofcom gave me a magic super customer complaints number for ntl where i got straight to a lady who said "o yeah your right , there you go ive credited your account with £180 you dont owe anything any more bye" sorted

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"My point was that the whole 12 month contract line is, when questioned, a load of rubbish."

 

Who cares if I'm depending on thier goodwill? The point is if you insist they give in.

 

Re above post I believe that offer ran out at the end of March. Trouble is people like me have been too busy to contact them but then I don't want to leave anyway.

 

Anyway we have highlighted another get out say you're moving to another area where you cannot get thier services.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Development: Turns out the reason I was getting silly error messages from my Vbox is because my account has been in arrears for four months (with a current balance of over £60CREDIT), and they have decided to terminate my service after 6 months. More on this story later in our main bulletin.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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