Ex Forces: No Doctor?

[UtterlyScrewed]

I tried to make an appointment with my local GP a couple of years ago as I was travelling through South East Asia shortly after the Boxing Day Tsunami. I had about Three Months time before my departure when I first went to the doctors and was told that I had to prove that I was no longer in the Army as I was not entitled to treatment after having numerous appointments cancelled and being fobbed off by them.

 

Eventually when I got past the staff and spoke to a Nurse a few days before I left she said that I was being unreasonable and I should have given them some time to sort it out. I asked if Three Months would be enough because that is how long I had been trying to see them.

 

I do not have discharge papers as I have moved house a few times and not kept track of them as I was glad to be out of the Army and saw no reason to keep them.

 

Can I still not see a doctor, even if I really need one or is there a way of replacing my papers?

 

Oh, I travelled to Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia and Australia with no innoculations after tye Nurse blamed ME for coming to see them at the very last minute without phoning in advance!

 

 

UtterlyScrewed

[ScarletPimpernel]

You can ask for a new (copy) red book by contacting the Veteran's Agency on 0800 169 2277.

 

As far as accessing NHS primary care is concerned, you are perfectly entitled to register with a doctor. Even whilst serving, a member of the armed forces can be seen by a NHS doctor under the temporary resident scheme. It should not be necessary for you to prove that you are no longer serving - you are entitled to treatment. Contact your local Primary Care Trust, who can ensure that you are registered. Even if a practice says it isn't accepting new patients, the PCT can place you with a GP.

 

You may also find the ARmy Rumour SErvice at British Army Rumour Service a useful source of help and information.

[bally35]

I would be interested in knowing how many ex forces personnel whose medical records have been lost?

I know of at least 4 (including husband) within my small area, who when they went to register with an nhs gp have discovered that their medical records had disappeared!

[lenny100]

I would be interested in knowing how many ex forces personnel whose medical records have been lost?

I know of at least 4 (including husband) within my small area, who when they went to register with an nhs gp have discovered that their medical records had disappeared!

 

This is not suprising my documents have also gone missing, and i have gulf war illness but because there are no medical records i am finding it hard to prove that I am ill because of my service.

[ScarletPimpernel]

It is curious that so many military medical records seem to go missing, not least because of the simple procedures in place to archive them and forward the relevant parts to the NHS. However, MOD has claimed not to have casualty figures for Op TELIC, which was proved to be no more than a lie, so they have demonstrated that they cannot be relied upon to be truthful.

 

I really find it hard to believe that any serviceman's medical records can go missing entirely without trace.

 

Military medical records are contained within a file cover (FMed4); the record of routine GP consultations is written on a card (FMed5); when full, these were edited and archived. Whenever a referral to hospital or elsewhere was made, the details are on an FMed7 - one copy to the hospital, one to the FMed4, and one to the central archive. The same goes for medicals and so on - a copy in the FMed4 and a copy to archives. Whenever a FMed4 goes anywhere, it's receipted. Nowadays, of course, much of it is computerised, but in addition to the digital record, hard copy printouts are kept.

 

When an individual leaves the services, a summary of their records is sent to the NHS Central Registry at Smedley Hydro, so that their new GP can send for them.

 

So, if MoD are claiming that records are lost, then they've managed to misplace the individual's personal medical record, any hospital records, and the archived copies. Oh, and if you've been on ops they've also lost the Field Medical record as well. How very careless of them.

 

Anyone with Gulf War Syndrome should also have specific records held by the med group who investigated it.

 

I am aware that some units (especially Army), don't give service leavers the correct information about how to register, and that some NHS GPs don't know how to request ex-service records, but if many people are having difficulties then something needs to be done.

 

I would be very interested to know what those whose records appear to be missing have done to pursue them, and what answers MOD have given.

[bally35]

Well for a start my OH is from nth Ire.He is ex navy and was in forces during time of first gulf war.

When he went to register with NHS doctor in naval town, the response was that his records had been lost.

Given the amount of naval personnel in this particular town , I would have thought that they would have been well practised in obtaining the records.

The same response was given when registering with new GP, Also doctor brothers on both sides of family have been unable to enlighten him.

As [reviously stated I know at least three others who (ex army) whose records have been lost.

The interesting part is that they were all in forces during first gulf war!!!!

[ScarletPimpernel]

Bally35

 

Has your OH spoken to anyone at MOD about his records, such as the Veteran's Agency? Coincidentally, I registered with a NHS GP in a naval town, and it took 9 months for my records to appear, and only then because I used my knowledge of military/NHS med admin to help the process.

 

There is considerable interest in military healthcare from both MPs and the media at the moment. One of the specific areas of interest is in what happens when people leave the forces. The Defence Committee of the Commons is currently looking at healthcare, and I am part of a group that will be submitting written evidence to the committee. I would welcome any information, which will be treated in strict confidence (any specific case submitted to the committee will be anonymised, and only used with consent).

 

If records are being lost, or if MOD or the NHS systems are not robust enough, this is a good chance to change things for the better.

 

Feel free to pm me if you prefer.

[bally35]

have pm 'ed you!!

[ScarletPimpernel]

Replied!

[lenny100]

pm'ed you

[ScarletPimpernel]

Replied!

[ScarletPimpernel]

Anyone who has had problems obtaining their service medical records should contact:

 

Derek Kirk

Disclosures Officer

APC HQ

Ministry of Defence

Kentigern House

65 Brown Street

Glasgow

G2 8EX

 

Tel: 0141 224 2575

Fax: 0141 224 3518

 

Send him a SAR asking for copies of all medical records.

[Brit]

Anyone currently serving can get their medical doc's and photocopy them, just pop down the medical centre and do it.

[shadrach]

if not serving anymore do I still go to post 12

[ScarletPimpernel]

if not serving anymore do I still go to post 12

 

 

Yes.

 

Anyone considering following the advice in post 13 should also be aware that their med centre may not have all the documents. Those still serving who want a copy of all their records (e.g. hospital notes rather than summaries, archived stuff etc.), can get them by applying via their medical centre; if the med centre claim not to be aware of the process (it happens), UPO/RAO/Gen Office can advise.

[livelylad]

A good thread.

[Tiger Tim]

I must say that I have had quite the oppisite experience.

 

When I came out the forces under a MD I applied through my Manning & Records (Glasgow) for a copy of all my Med Docs FMed 4 as I was entitled to these by law.

 

Sure enough 4 weeks later I received a full copy of my Docs covering every single event from the day I joined, Gulf innoculations etc.

 

Have not given these to my GP, just wanted to have a copy (just in case).

 

Tim.

[ScarletPimpernel]

For those still serving the following information may be of use:

 

Appendix 1 to Chap. 4 of JSP 400 provides the latest guidance on access to medical records by individuals. Essentially, it states that under Data Protection Act 98, on submission of a written request and verification of identity, a full copy of records held electronically and manually is to be provided.

 

There seems to be a misapprehension amongst some med staff that if a claim against MOD is contemplated records can only be released to a solicitor; this is incorrect. In any case, the individual is not obliged to say why they want the records.

 

Picking up on Tiger Tim's post, it's probably a good idea for anyone leaving the forces to get a copy of their med records, especially if they are on any sort of treatment - the process of records being sent from military to NHS Central Registry and thence to a GP can be a long one.

[ScarletPimpernel]

War Pensioners are supposed to get priority treatment on the NHS (for the injury or condition for which the War Pension was awarded), but many NHS Trusts seem to ignore it. We are assured by the flaccid Derek Twigg MP, a junior defence minister and New Labour apparatchik, that the MOD reminds the NHS of its obligations every two years - so that's all right then.

 

Any War Pensioner having difficulties should quote the document to be found below, which is the latest version: HSG (97)31: Priority treatment for war pensioners : Department of Health - Publications and statistics

The Service Personnel and Veteran's Agency can give more advice.

[ScarletPimpernel]

MOD has issued (Apr 07) updated guidance on how units are to deal with SARs from serving members.

 

A SAR can be submitted by letter, or by using the new MOD F1694 - Subject Access Request form.

 

Note that the F1694 requires the submitter to identify which documentation they require; whilst 'all data held' can be used. Somewhat confusingly, the form says that it should be sent to one of a list of 'central' addresses. However, I am informed that it can also be submitted to the Data Compliance Officer at the individual's unit, who can action the provision of data held locally and forward the request for any other data (e.g. to APC).

 

For med docs, the F1694 can be submitted direct to the medical centre. I spoke recently to MOD Info Access Pol, who advise that it is not acceptable for individuals to photocopy their own notes; not only should the SAR be passed to the MO first (to determine if redaction is necessary), the DPA requires that data controllers provide data in a legible format. The responsibility for copying documents is the data controller's. In addition to a photocopy of the FMed 4 and contents, an EMIS printout should be provided.

 

MOD's guidance (available on DefenceNet) is clear on the statutory time limits and that if for some reason they cannot be adhered to the requester is to be notified in writing, and whatever data is held should be provided in the meantime.

 

There is also a complaints procedure that refelcts the individual's right to complain to the Information commissioner. AGAI Ch70 or the RAF and RN equivalents can still be used, however.