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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Bankchargesnotus V Lloyds TSB


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Claiming initially £1364.44 from TSB Bank from an account which was closed around 12-18 months ago

 

Sent DPA Letter 16/11/2006

Received statements 13/12/2006

Sent Request for repayment of charges 20/12/2006

Reply received 04/01/2007 - Pretty much expected telling me to go away !!!!

Sent LBA on 06/02/2007 - Bit of a delay as ill for three weeks with tonsilitis (twice) - Lame excuse I know.

Had no reply to that letter whatsoever!!!!!!!!:mad:

Trotted along to my local county court on 26/02/2007 and filed my money claim, which now with interest is £1833.56, Claim was issued by court on 27/02/2007, the defendant had until today 19/03/2007 to respond, nothing as yet, phoned this am, will phone again after 4pm.

 

Phoned court this morning and no contact has been made from TSB, their 14 days are up!

Recieved a letter today, letter dated 15/03/2007, however not posted until 19/03/2007

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr & Mrs

 

Thank youfor your letter dated 06 February 2007. I am sorry that you've not been happy with our response so far.

 

I am unable to add to our letter dated 04 January 2007. This is because we have already outlined our position on the points you have raised.

 

We see from our records that you have already issues a court claim for repayment of these fees and that our solicitors are dealing with this. Apart from explaining our position, theres nothing more I can do to help you at this stage.

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to raise your concerns with us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

James Binding

Customer Service Recovery Centre Andover.

 

 

 

Was going to send letter to TSB today offering another 7 days to respond to court claim so that they would hopefully not be successful then in gaining a stay, however after receiving this letter and speaking to the court about the contents I am confident that they would not be successful???

 

Anyone any ideas????

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After getting the letter (Lloyds TSB), I actually called TSB and tried to speak to James, however he was unavilable, I was told however that they could not find their letter which I was referring to, the one in my hand that is! and they had no knowledge that I had taken this to court claim already, again see third paragraph of their letter.

 

They did however tell me that they had sent me a letter on 5 th March with £750 offer, I never received this, they said they would re-send that! They also advised me to speak to their legal reps as they could not advise, basically sounds like thye didn't really know what they were talking about.

 

I spoke to Seihian & Clark Sols today and they could amazingly not find my details and I am waiting for a call back, I explained that Lloyds or themselves have missed their opportunity to acknowledge and I was phoning them to offer the chance to comment or even to refund the charges plus interest in full. I suspect from the worry in his voice that there has been some breakdown of communication between them as no-one was singing from the same hymn sheet!

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Had a call from Solicitors 8.50 this morning stating that they had indeed filed an acknoweldgement with the court and she had phoned yesterday to check they had received it and they confirmed they had. My husband phoned the court this afternoon to find out when they filed it as it was (so we thought) done as soon as they realised they hadn't done it yestrday and guess what, they have not filed anything at all with the court!!!! I phoned twice just to double check and nothing at all received so either they were lying or they have contacted the wrong court!!!

 

TSB also phoned today to apologise for the delay in filing a response by the deadline and blamed the volume of cases as the reason, she also told me that the £750 offer that I was told yesterday was sent on 5 March (which I never received) was told to me in error and I was never meant to be sent this offer - I dont think they have a clue whats going on??

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Received defence and AQ on Saturday 24/3, my AQ has to be returned by 10 April, was looking to send the updated version anyone offer any advice as it seems a little more complicated and you seem to have to have a little more knowledge than I actually have?????:o

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Hi

Have you had a look at the AQ links? Which part are you stuck on?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57708-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

Do keep us updated, and if no-one is answering you, just bump up your thread until someone helps.:)

Barty:)

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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Hi Bankchargesnotus

 

If you get a bit frustrated or feel you need advice, please go to live chat and ask any questions in there. I and plenty of others will try to help.

Welcome to the forum.

 

Please take time to read the faq's

use the template letters.

 

LINKS....

FAQs....

 

Templates Library....

There is also live chat, visit if you need any quick advice.

 

Finally good Luck.

Happyolddog.

 

If my advice helps please tip the scales, left.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Checked with the court yesterday and the AQ from tsb along with my own was received within the 10 April deadline so just a matter of waiting now.

 

Anyone reading this is court date next step and how long does that normally take, roughly:p

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Checked with the court yesterday and the AQ from tsb along with my own was received within the 10 April deadline so just a matter of waiting now.

 

Anyone reading this is court date next step and how long does that normally take, roughly:p

 

 

Hi

Yes you should get a Court date next, how long it takes will depend on how busy your local Court is.

Barty:)

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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Got a letter this morning and from court as follows:

 

General Form of Judgement or Order

Before District Judge XXXXX sitting at XXXXX Court

Upon the Courts own motion. The court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to the order, you must make an application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. The Claimant shall by 4pm on 4 may 2007 file and serve a fully particularised schedule of all charges and interest, currently in dispute.

 

2. The Defendant, if not accepting the sums claimed, shall file and serve, by 4pm on 25 May 2007 a counter schedule.

 

3. That there will be a stay until 22 June 2007 to enable the parties to attempt settlement.

 

4. On or before 22 June 2007 one of the following steps must be taken:

either

the claimant must notify the Court that the whole claim has been settled;

or

the claimant or defendants solicitors must write to the court requesting an extention of the stay period, explaining the steps being taken towards settlement and identifying any mediator, expert or other person helping with the process. The letter should confirm the agreement of all other parties;

or

Where a settlement of some of the issues has been reached, a list of those issues should be sent to the Court and must be agreed with the other parties and must indicate that it has been agreed.

 

Any comments on this would be much appreciated as I was not expecting it, I am assuming it is a good thing because when I spoke to court admin about it they basically said the courts are fed up with Banks paying out last minute after the expense and time of a court hearing being arranged so this is their way of saying pay up and quick!!

 

Feeling Hopeful !!!!:)

 

Just rang Sechiari Clark and Mitchel advsing that I am phoning in response to order with a view to negotiating a settlement and they are going to contact TSB and get back to me today. Any ideas what their settlement is likely to be?? Anyone

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They phoned this afternoon and stated that they have spoke to tsb and they are not prepared to settle at the moment.

 

I had sent them a letter yesterday offering them one week to settle before I approach the judge for a stay but I wont be doing that as the court order states they have to provide counter schedule by 25 May which obviously they cannot do.

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I'm not sure that LTSB couldn't come up with an alternative list of charges, but I think all that you can do at the moment is follow the court order. It's a shame there is such a long time until the stay ends. You could possibly apply for the removal of the stay, but there might need to be a hearing for that and it could delay matters even more.

 

I would suggest you write and offer a settlement, as per the YB thread you have already seen, after the date for the submission of the charges, when the stay starts. Not sure if you'll get a response as I'm not so familiar with how this bank operate.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Thanks for the reply Caro, really confused now though.

 

Got some advice last week about this and was told that they have to submit the schedule of charges by 25 May according to the order and I thought that was true costings and they wouldn't be able to do that so they would settle by then. Is the counter schedule not the true costings??

What happens if they just ignore the 25 May deadline can I not do anything will the court not do anything.

I actually thought this was a good thing and was told not to apply for the removal of the stay, however to send a letter threatening that as next action and that they will most definately settle by 25th, is that not right, really confused now:(

Here is letter i sent

 

My add

 

Sechiari Clark & Mitchell

 

Tuesday, 17 April 2007

Claim Number:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the Court Order dated 12 April 2007 issued by Judge XXXXX at Runcorn County Court in respect of claim .

I again request that you settle this claim in full within 1 week of this letter. The amount required to bring this action to an end is £XXXX. This includes interest.

I am sure that you will agree it is in the best interests of all concerned to settle this matter without incurring any further costs or wasting court time.

I have enclosed as directed a fully particularised schedule of all charges and interest, a copy of this letter and the schedule will be sent to the court.

If you fail to settle this matter within one week I will request the removal of the stay and inform District Judge XXXXX that you have made no attempt to resolve and settle this case.

 

This offer will remain valid for 7 days after which I will proceed with the application to have the stay removed.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Cc Judge XXXXX, Runcorn County Court

Please really really confused as to what to do next??????

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Guest ChloeJane

Hi Bank!

 

In case you lost the link -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay.html

 

Reading over your post Bank -

 

I personally would not apply for a stay for the reasons below -

 

1. They are being asked - The Claimant shall by 4pm on 4 may 2007 file and serve a fully particularised schedule of all charges and interest, currently in dispute.

 

They have no defence to this and cannot justify their charges, so I fail to see how on the 4th they will file accordingly. To date not one bank has justified their charges!

 

So I would sit tight till the 5th of may and you will no doubtably find that they have not filed under the directions. If that is the case you can file for breach of an order under Section 3.3.4 of the CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES and have their defence struck out and win by default.

 

Hang in there...it is only a few more days...these are my own personal beliefs in that I do not think they will provide what is required by the order.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Spoke to the court admin today just to see anything submitted from bank and as yet nothing,:) and the counter schedule is due from them on 25th May!

 

Is it a request for judgement or something else i file for if they fail to file ??? Can they ask for extra time to submit also and would the judge be likely to approve???

 

Any help much appreciated

 

XXX

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Got a letter this morning and from court as follows:

 

General Form of Judgement or Order

Before District Judge XXXXX sitting at XXXXX Court

Upon the Courts own motion. The court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to the order, you must make an application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. The Claimant shall by 4pm on 4 may 2007 file and serve a fully particularised schedule of all charges and interest, currently in dispute.

 

2. The Defendant, if not accepting the sums claimed, shall file and serve, by 4pm on 25 May 2007 a counter schedule.

 

3. That there will be a stay until 22 June 2007 to enable the parties to attempt settlement .

 

4. On or before 22 June 2007 one of the following steps must be taken:

either

the claimant must notify the Court that the whole claim has been settled;

or

the claimant or defendants solicitors must write to the court requesting an extention of the stay period, explaining the steps being taken towards settlement and identifying any mediator, expert or other person helping with the process. The letter should confirm the agreement of all other parties;

or

Where a settlement of some of the issues has been reached, a list of those issues should be sent to the Court and must be agreed with the other parties and must indicate that it has been agreed.

 

Any comments on this would be much appreciated as I was not expecting it, I am assuming it is a good thing because when I spoke to court admin about it they basically said the courts are fed up with Banks paying out last minute after the expense and time of a court hearing being arranged so this is their way of saying pay up and quick!!

 

Feeling Hopeful !!!!:)

 

Just rang Sechiari Clark and Mitchel advsing that I am phoning in response to order with a view to negotiating a settlement and they are going to contact TSB and get back to me today. Any ideas what their settlement is likely to be?? Anyone

 

I've emboldened the relevant part of your court order. Looks to me like the amount is not being disputed by Lloyds and a stay is now in place to give you both time to settle.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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