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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card


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Hi Peter

 

I'm not picking- I was just clarifying what I had said previously - in order to answer the question you had asked!

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

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Hi Again

Interesting issue about credit scoring an agreement after you have appied on a distance contract, it is prohibited by the regs as they say that the correct apr must be shown in order to give the consumer acoorect picture of what they are buying and allow them to accurately comare products.

So in theory any agreement/application with the words rate subject to credit does not meet the standards of the regulations and is therefore unenforceable.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hi Again

Interesting issue about credit scoring an agreement after you have appied on a distance contract, it is prohibited by the regs as they say that the correct apr must be shown in order to give the consumer acoorect picture of what they are buying and allow them to accurately comare products.

So in theory any agreement/application with the words rate subject to credit does not meet the standards of the regulations and is therefore unenforceable.

 

Peter

 

Yeah but - no but - yeah but! :lol: -

 

I can't say I've seen any agreement that say 'rate subject to credit' and the Agreements regs/TCC regs provide that various assumptions may be made when calculating the APR if the credit limit is not known.

 

Two of these is that the credit limit will be assumed to be £1,500 and that the calculation period will be 1 year. So all agreements should show at least an APR calculated using these permitted assumptions.

 

Regards, Pam

 

P.S. -

Disclaimer

This does not constitute nit-picking but is a contribution to a debate. :D:D

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

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Guest Battleaxe

Laughing at the Disclaimer Pam.

 

None of our so called CC Agreements show an APR and no credit limit.

 

This applies to A & L/MBNA and Capital One. Very naughty of the credit card companies and their lazy ways.

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Hi

I have developed a habit of picking up leaflets for applications everytime i see one in the bank in the petrol station etc (sad man)in order to look at the Section 1 details on them.

The one i got from tesco,s has a banding thing where depending on your credit rating you got on your credit score your interest varies between 26 and 55% apr its a Vanquis card. I have seen similar things on other aplications.

Since i picked this up from the supermarket as opposed to the bank i presume it is a distance arrangement so this really should not happen IMO.

As well as the two criterea for calculating APR you mentioned there are individual payment amounts and frequency as well as upfront costs applied to your account and any other fees, of course you new that but someone else might not have.(See how careful i am being.)

 

 

Regards

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

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Laughing at the Disclaimer Pam.

 

None of our so called CC Agreements show an APR and no credit limit.

 

This applies to A & L/MBNA and Capital One. Very naughty of the credit card companies and their lazy ways.

Very naughty and also unenforceable of course the credit limit being a prescribed term.

The apr is unenforceable without an order from the court.

although i believe you can also make a case for unenforceability on that also under 127(1) if you can show you were missled into making the purchase by the lack of it being on the agreement.

 

Regards

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Guest Battleaxe

Peter,

 

I think we can do that; so now we have them not only on Section 85 but Section 127 (1).

 

We have been playing poker with them, waiting for them to take us to court, but I think I will up the ante on them.

 

MBNA and Crap One, are you ready?

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Peter,

 

I think we can do that; so now we have them not only on Section 85 but Section 127 (1).

 

We have been playing poker with them, waiting for them to take us to court, but I think I will up the ante on them.

 

MBNA and Crap One, are you ready?

 

BA

 

I'm sitting here waiting with bated breath... there's a deathly hush around, the enemy are bloodied with s77-79, s85 and s127(1) breathing heavily they suddenly realize that there are even greater destructive weapons just around the corner.

 

btw poor man from LTSB just called me, given up on asking me security questions I always decline, needs desperately to talk to me about my accounts. I asked him to write to me but he said that they didnt have that facility... I suggested that he phoned his HO and requisitioned a pen and paper, envelopes and stamps, ... he hung up on me....

 

Z

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Zubo, I like that line, I might try that with 1st Credit (who appear to be the next people to try and take us to court). Phew, that would be the third lot in 6 months.

 

you have to have a certain humour to put up with the sheer unadulterated pile of cr@p you get from these ****.

 

Hope all is going well for you buddy....

 

Z

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I asked him to write to me but he said that they didnt have that facility... I suggested that he phoned his HO and requisitioned a pen and paper, envelopes and stamps, ... he hung up on me....

 

Z

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

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Hi,

 

I'm giving it a go this week (wont say who for now, MIB) but as pointed out before, no precedent can be set in small claims, needs to go higher

 

TBH, I don't think it will get to court, if the CCP have got any sense they'll settle before that happens because the response to my S78 would look like a very bad joke (gone badly wrong, in a bad way) to the court

 

I'm taking an approach to the whole thing that I believe is very fair, should it work out I'll broadcast it

 

 

Are you sure about the small claims issue ? i thought that under the normal rules of citation in court, that if a point of law is about to be confirmed/denied or a point of law slightly altered/ammended or otherwise and that case is then recorded (as it must be under the rules) whether small,multi, fast track, mercantile or high court or other, that case is then citable as an authority in any other court in the land. However a judgement made but not recorded will still be citable although it wont carry quite the weight as another case which has been recorded.

Clearly if a ruling is made that is then subject to appeal, it will tavel onto the high court, where the case will still be recorded as an appeal.

But my point is that if a small claims judge does get to make a ruling in court then that case will then become an authority on that issue.

 

 

 

IMHO

 

johnny

Dont Rush - Take Your Time - Dont always take me seriously

:p

 

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Here, if you feel i have not helped you then click Here, if you want to complain about this go Here, if you would like bank secrets then go Here.

 

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I must admit I believed that CCJudgements could not be used as precedents...

need a legal beaver for that...

 

one of Terms legal folk? or BA or .... ???

 

Calling Cavalry and cross-posting...

 

Z

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Hi

 

As far as I know, County Courts do not have jurisdiction to declare or change the law, they can only interpret and apply it, so cannot set precedent.

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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Just thought I would add my little addition on here... and sorry if I am actually hijacking but I don't mean to... this is what Mr Pudsters got from American Express... comments would be much appreciated and sorry to all who have already seen this on the CCA thread...just trying to gain loads of opinions.... would love some advice from the more experienced Caggers about this and how they think I stand with it...and I've set up two threads now...they should show on my signature!!! more to come so feel free to have a gander and comment as you wish! thanx! AmericanExpressCCA-1.jpg

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Just thought I would add my little addition on here... and sorry if I am actually hijacking but I don't mean to... this is what Mr Pudsters got from American Express... comments would be much appreciated and sorry to all who have already seen this on the CCA thread...just trying to gain loads of opinions.... would love some advice from the more experienced Caggers about this and how they think I stand with it...and I've set up two threads now...they should show on my signature!!! more to come so feel free to have a gander and comment as you wish! thanx! AmericanExpressCCA-1.jpg

Pudster

Hopefully you will have read my approach in my Amex link - go and insist on getting your 13 page agreement.

Z

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Hi

 

As far as I know, County Courts do not have jurisdiction to declare or change the law, they can only interpret and apply it, so cannot set precedent.

 

Regards, Pam

 

HI

Civil Law has developed in a similar way to the way criminal law has, through a mixture of Statutory Law made by governments, and 'precedent' which is created by earlier cases. I am not sure whether this extends dowm to county court hearings my instincts say no.Needs research

Petr

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Banks can avoid this nonsense by taking a very simple step - operate within the law (I'll call it 'OWL')

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

PS. Obviously a nice time was had in the pub by me tonight.

Thanx Lantana... have tried to tip ur scales but i've got to share the wealth with others first...lol... I have tried to tip the scales for everyone that has helped me tho so don't think I'm favouritising (even if I have just made up that word!) Anyways...have written back to American Express and have read up on Zubos thread...Thanx Zubo!!! Lots of great advice, ill post in a min with my new thread for MBNA and their attempt at sending me an executed agreement,... if you don't mind cast y our eyes over what they have sent me and see what you think... it is also posted on the MBNA Properly Exectuted Agreements thread.... Any comms would be most appreciated! :D

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Right Amex update on my thread...please have a look all...

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