Moorcroft and my Son

[Dave44]

In August 2006 my son received a letter from Moorcroft saying they were collecting a debt for Vertbaudet of £181.45. Which if he didn't pay it immediately would result in his being taken to court.

He telephoned Moorcroft and explained that he had never hear of this company and certainly did not owe them any money. They told him it was a catalogue company and that he should make immediate payment.

A bit of background history :- My son was declared bankrupt in August 2005 and he and his wife separated (now divorced) with him moving out of the marital home. It is his belief that his ex-wife has forged his signature for a catalogue account as he has not and would not attempt to get credit since being declared bankrupt.

In September I wrote to Moorcroft stating the following:

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement. I do not acknowledge any debt to Vertbaudet and I have never heard of this company. As such, the amount is now in dispute.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Section 77-79) I am entitled to receive a copy of the credit agreement on request. I enclose payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a copy of our agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

In October he received a letter from Droyds Debt & Collection Services which said:

I attach a copy of the standard agreement which you would have signed in accordance with advice given you at the time you established your home shopping account with Vert Baudet. You appear to have acted in a way which indicates that an agreement was signed as you have conducted the account for some time by placing orders, receiving goods, returning goods within the approval period and making payments. Copy statements showing all transactions are also enclosed. These enclosures satisfy the requirements of section 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in regard to supplying a copy of the agreement and accounts statements.

I must however, correct your statement that we are under an obligation to provide a facsimile copy of a signed agreement. The regulations only require us to provide a copy of the agreement and it is not necessary to provide a signature box. I refer you to Regulation 3 - Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents Regulations 1983 (SI. No.1557)

The bold items are as in their letter.

Enclosed with their letter was a blank copy of the front and back page of what it states is " Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974". On the back page are Vertbaudet Terms.

The copy statement does not show any transactions just that at 1/09/06 the debt was £182.45

As they had not complied with my son's request for a copy of the agreement within 12 working days I told him to wait a further 30 days as I felt that the information they had send did not comply with his request for a true copy of the credit agreement.

On the 5th March this year he received an "Urgent Final Demand" from a company called Debt Managers Ltd. containing the usual threats about additional court costs etc. if it was not paid within 48 Hrs.

I have written to Debt Managers Ltd. to say that this debt is in dispute and enclosing a copy of my son's letter to Moorcroft.

The question is where do I go from here? Under the Consumer Credit Act do they have to provide a copy of the actual agreement that they say he has signed?

Dave44

[pmhcfc]

In August 2006 my son received a letter from Moorcroft saying they were collecting a debt for Vertbaudet of £181.45. Which if he didn't pay it immediately would result in his being taken to court.

He telephoned Moorcroft and explained that he had never hear of this company and certainly did not owe them any money. They told him it was a catalogue company and that he should make immediate payment.

A bit of background history :- My son was declared bankrupt in August 2005 and he and his wife separated (now divorced) with him moving out of the marital home. It is his belief that his ex-wife has forged his signature for a catalogue account as he has not and would not attempt to get credit since being declared bankrupt.

In September I wrote to Moorcroft stating the following:

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement. I do not acknowledge any debt to Vertbaudet and I have never heard of this company. As such, the amount is now in dispute.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Section 77-79) I am entitled to receive a copy of the credit agreement on request. I enclose payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a copy of our agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

In October he received a letter from Droyds Debt & Collection Services which said:

I attach a copy of the standard agreement which you would have signed in accordance with advice given you at the time you established your home shopping account with Vert Baudet. You appear to have acted in a way which indicates that an agreement was signed as you have conducted the account for some time by placing orders, receiving goods, returning goods within the approval period and making payments. Copy statements showing all transactions are also enclosed. These enclosures satisfy the requirements of section 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in regard to supplying a copy of the agreement and accounts statements.

I must however, correct your statement that we are under an obligation to provide a facsimile copy of a signed agreement. The regulations only require us to provide a copy of the agreement and it is not necessary to provide a signature box. I refer you to Regulation 3 - Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents Regulations 1983 (SI. No.1557)

The bold items are as in their letter.

Enclosed with their letter was a blank copy of the front and back page of what it states is " Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974". On the back page are Vertbaudet Terms.

The copy statement does not show any transactions just that at 1/09/06 the debt was £182.45

As they had not complied with my son's request for a copy of the agreement within 12 working days I told him to wait a further 30 days as I felt that the information they had send did not comply with his request for a true copy of the credit agreement.

On the 5th March this year he received an "Urgent Final Demand" from a company called Debt Managers Ltd. containing the usual threats about additional court costs etc. if it was not paid within 48 Hrs.

I have written to Debt Managers Ltd. to say that this debt is in dispute and enclosing a copy of my son's letter to Moorcroft.

The question is where do I go from here? Under the Consumer Credit Act do they have to provide a copy of the actual agreement that they say he has signed?

Dave44

 

They haven't complied to your original CCA, and they need to be told this... Send them this letter..

 

I refer to my letters dated XXXXXXXX which was delivered via recorded delivery to your offices on XXXXXXXX, and my follow up letter dated XXXXXXXX.

 

In my letter xxxxxxI made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above numbered XXXXXXXX account under section 77(1) and section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act. In addition a statement of my account should have been sent along with any other document mentioned in the credit agreement

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX respectively

 

As you are no doubt aware subsection

 

6) states: If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore as at XXXXXXXX this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

 

Any default notices or adverse comments your company have recorded on my credit reference file should be immediately removed.

 

Failure to respond favourably to this letter within seven (7) days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice.

 

Yours Faithfully

[Dave44]

Thanks pmhcfc I heve sent of a letter to Debt Managers Ltd. stating that the debt is in dispute and sent the letter you provided to Droyds Debt and Collection Services. As the first letter was from Moorcroft and I sent off the request for a copy of the agreement to them I don't understand why I then received a reply from Droyds and then a final demand from Debt Managers Ltd. are they just passing this alleged debt arround?

My son is certain his ex-wife has forged his signature as she used to do this when they were married.

[Dave44]

I've just thought I sent the request to Moorcroft for a copy of the agreement. The reply my son received back was from Droyds so are they correct in saying that they are only required to provide a copy of the agreement which he would have signed and not an actual copy with the signature?

[pmhcfc]

I've just thought I sent the request to Moorcroft for a copy of the agreement. The reply my son received back was from Droyds so are they correct in saying that they are only required to provide a copy of the agreement which he would have signed and not an actual copy with the signature?

 

Did you send a CCA template letter from the library here ? It says in their reply that this is a copy of what you would have signed...That isn't what you've asked for re the CC Act... i suspect its been sold on because the original DCA knows there;s no OA,, it's a usual tactic...Tell this new lot that the account is in dispute and account shouldn't be passed around whilst account/alleged debt is in dispute.

[demon_x_slash]

My son is certain his ex-wife has forged his signature as she used to do this when they were married.

 

Has your son thought about reporting this to the police, then, and getting a crime number? Forgery, obtaining goods by deception, fraud...companies seem to sit up and take notice a little more if you have a crime number.