Urgent Attention Please Read - Claims in Scotland

[caro]

5 posts up from this one.

[monstro]

Sorry to butt in, I think the answer is brazenly obvious to all those in Scotland who are considering suing for over 1.5k, maybe it is a wise idea for a group of you to get together and appoint a lawyer. If you win in court you will get their fees, and if the bank decide to settle the lawyer will include his/hers fees in the settlement.

 

Really this could work well for all involved, if all CAG members in Scotland used the same law firm, a decent agreement could be worked out (it is the lose arrangement you have to worry about, as it not really your concern how mush the banks have to pay them) and if it did ever come to court that firm would be experts by that time.

 

If you did go as a group it would be wise to have an agreed lose fee, ie if the claim should be lost you only owe the lawyer £250 or no win, now fee, but be carefull here as these can be tricky, if you did go down that road, you have to make sure you got 100% of the claim and not have to buy insurance.

I think the courts are right in doing this, we are knowingly trying to bend the rules, they are not saying not to claim but to do it correctly.

I think your suggestion has some merit! CB have taken somewhere in the region of £2500 from me over the last 5 years and I would like it back. I wrote to them recently to point out the error of their ways and received a fairly polite letter(for a bank) stating that "I should be patient as they were looking into the matter" Of course they are!!

Anybody out there interested in forming a group to appoint a lawer?

[wsm36]

Just out of curiousity, anyone got any info on what courts are no longer accepting multiple claims on the same account as I am 10 days away from doing a Summary Cause against BOS but I've already done a small claim on this account. Any info anyone, or I could call the court and ask them.

[Bigmac versus]

Stiling, Edinburgh and Kilmarnock have all had 2nd cases thrown out.

[Barobalti]

Just out of curiousity, anyone got any info on what courts are no longer accepting multiple claims on the same account as I am 10 days away from doing a Summary Cause against BOS but I've already done a small claim on this account. Any info anyone, or I could call the court and ask them.

Perhaps pursue via FOS when you get their "final offer" letter instead of going via Court?

[nicola]

Help just been on the phone to the FSO they said if I had taken any court proceedings they would not look at the case at all. I took the RBS to the small claims court and they settled before the court date for around £800, my bank charges are over the 4K mark and I just don't know what to do now I have already got another small claims court date in for the 14 of April. I know people now have just sent one letter into my bank and got a settlement. Should I send the bank another letter, as they seem to be folding much easyer now?

[photoworks]

I was wondering about the financial ombudsman service for the rest? Good idea or not?

 

Would be as well very much interested if it a good idea use the financial ondbudsman service.

 

i sent a claim to Royal bank of scotland for a amount totalling £3000 and i am very much worried about what is said on this thread about claiming in scotland using small claim.

 

i am unfortunately based in Scotland.

 

Help would be very much appreciated.

 

[b49]

Hi everyone this is the first time i have posted on this site, apologies if i am doing it in the wrong area. Just yesterday i sent away a letter to the Halifax asking for my charges back, I am looking for some advice on what to do if and when they come back and say I can not have them, I live in Scotland and all the above info has left me quite confused.

[change-it]

Hi b49,

Well done for getting started!

 

Start your own new thread in the Scotland forum or Halifax forum so's everyone can follow your progress and you can get all the help and advice you need from the wonderful people on this site.

 

Firstly read the faqs-and as many threads and other info. as you can.

 

They will try and come back and say you can't have them....but when you start reading you'll realise.. YOU CAN!!

 

Good Luck!

[kevmcfad]

I've already successfully claimed 3 times against HBOS with Kilmarnock Sheriff Court. They accepted it no problem. Going with my 4th and last soon.

[nicola]

well i mite aswell just go for it if they throw it out I'll just get myself a lawyer.

[Bigmac versus]

HI Kev this has only happened with Clydesdale Bank at Kilmarnock.

[smoorach]

caro, just wondering why the CAG is sugesting for claims over £750 you contact FOS? perhaps we should qualify that statement by saying that anything under £1500 should and can succesfully be claimed via the courts in one go using small claims for under £750 or sumary cause for over that but under £1500. this is really confusing some of the new scottish claimers as the info on here is very conflicting. sumary cause is just as easy to use as small claims and the only difference is the forms you submit to court.

[Bigmac versus]

Hi smorach there will be some guidance on this within the next few days in the forum so as to clarify the situation.

[caro]

Thanks for pointing that out Smoorach. It is exactly because of the conflicting and confusing posts that the guidelines for claiming in Scotland are being rewritten.

 

Normally advice for claiming from any bank would be the same, but at the moment Clydesdale is the bank who have successfully defended claims on the basis of not being able to go back a second time, which is being further complicated by some courts taking a similar stance. There is also concern that other courts may follow suit.

 

I am not familiar with procedures in Scotland myself and have to take advice on it, and I have to say that personally, if I was about to make a claim I might well wait until the way ahead was clearer. I have become involved in Scottish matters by default really as I was a Yorkshire Bank customer who are part of the same group as Clydesdale.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with claiming throught the FOS, although I don't know how long it takes. What I do know is that banks have paid up with interest when the FOS has been invloved so there is nothing to lose by doing that, and quite possibly everything to gain.

 

I also think it is important that everyone checks the facts for their own case every step of the way, and makes sure that whatever they do is right for them. None of us are experts here but the advice we give is given in good faith.

[smoorach]

im glad there is going to be conclusive guidance on the site about scottish claims as i feel this area is lacking a bit. however i think you missed my point. i cannot comment on claims being thrown out as so far my local court is not taking this stance. what i was saying is that people seem to be getting stuck on the small claims business here. we have two ways of claiming in scotland and not just one. let me give you an example. if i was claiming £1400 as a new claimer from reading on this site i might think i had to split this to claim under £750 each time through small claims. this is not true and where the info on the site seems to mislead.. the right way to claim this ammount would be in one go through the summary cause route. if consequently a court threw out my second claim in small claims for being done wrongly then they would be quite right as the claim could and should have been done in one go. hope that clears this up for any new claimers watching this thread.

[Robertxc]

The reason we don't advise people to go through summary cause is because of the considerably heightened risk that the claim will fail. Small claims in Scotland are very much intended for individuals to do themselves, wheras summary cause and ordinary cause are intended for solicitors. Now, I will accept completely that it is absolutely possible for an individual to raise either a summary or ordinary cause, HOWEVER since the these routes are intended for solicitors, there is a considerably higher standard expected in terms of the way the case is argued. That's not to say of course that you can't raise a summary cause action, and have it proceed quite happily until the bank settles, but if there is something wrong with the way in which i has been put together the bank is quite likely to turn up and simply have it dismissed (as has happened a couple of times to people going back for a second claim). If this happens in small claims, it isn't a disaster because there are generally no costs awarded. In summary and ordinary cause however, this is obviously not the case.

 

It's a mistake to think that the only way a bank is going to 'win' one of these cases is to successfully argue that their charges are lawfull. all the bank really has to do is 'not lose', and the most effective way of doing that is to convince the sheriff that your case is flawed and should be dismissed.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that the whole bank charges issue is quite dynamic, with both the banks and CAG regularly refining tactics either as a new situation develops, or in response to a new initiative. This dictates that our advice needs to be revisited and looked at again on a regular basis. It also means that the advice may not always be bang up to date.

 

I agree that summary cause is a tempting route for those people who are claiming between £750 and £1500, but the professional considered advice we've had, both from sheriffs and lawyers (including The Govan Law Centre) is that summary and ordinary cause are no place for party litigants, because it is perfectly possible to have you case dismissed for no other reason than that you're not a lawyer and you don't know the rules.

[RedDeath]

It's a mistake to think that the only way a bank is going to 'win' one of these cases is to successfully argue that their charges are lawfull. all the bank really has to do is 'not lose', and the most effective way of doing that is to convince the sheriff that your case is flawed and should be dismissed.

 

Very good point there and one that has made me think. I am in a very difficult position in that I am pursuing 6.5k in charges, 5.5k in interest (@29.8%) and will also seek damages. The Scottish judicial system seems very antiquated in these circumstances, however, it is very interesting that even if you are going through a summary court you need to prepare a proper claim or have it ruled out. I suppose respect for the courts and the judicial system is paramount.

 

One question please. Due to the size of my claim I need to raise an ordinary action and this may be heard in a summary court (depends on the judge) and if too big then referred to a court of session.

 

I am confident with my POC, it has grown considerable from the simple template letter. Would it be viable for me to raise a summary action and hope that it is read in that court, and have a solicitor on standyby in case it goes to a court of session and then get him/her to reppresent me?

 

Or should I just take a trip south of the border?

[caro]

I wouldn't even think of doing a claim like that south of the border RedDeath. Your case would be in fast track or multi track and you would be leaving yourself wide open to having your case thrown out and having to pay the banks costs. There is no basis in law for claiming contractual interest and damages are an entirely different issue.

 

If I were you I would have a complete rethink on how to proceed and leave yourself at the least possible risk of losing and having to pay costs. I see that you have already been advised of this on your thread.

 

Could you please keep details of your case on your own thread and leave this one to discuss the issue of claiming charges in Scotland, and the best way to proceed.

[RedDeath]

Yes Caro,

I am posting my questions on my thread, however finding some comprehensive info on the Scottish system is proving difficult. Questions regarding my claim were intended as guideline to explain my situation.

[Barobalti]

I went at it alone and got a win against BoS by Summary Claim. I forwarded the Sheriff's Decree to BoS and they have ignored me.

 

On my instruction, a Sheriff Officer has served a charge on them and they have 14 days from March 28th to pay me a total of £1,766.87 or he's going in to seize and auction their assets or (I wish!) have them declared insolvent.

 

The forms for the Summary Action are almost exactly the same as those for Small Claims. As here at the CAG we have excellent advice, templates, and instructions on how to paraphrase our claims, then I personally would have no hesitation in going at them once again by Summary Cause for amounts above Small Calim and below 1.5K.

 

I will be contributing to the CAG on settlement as I cannot thank this Group enough for helping me to set fear aside and simply "go for it!".

[caro]

Was your claim under 1500.00 and the rest court costs?

[smoorach]

interest is not taken into the total ammount caro so you may claim 1500 purely in charges interest is then added to this by the courts

[poltmcm]

the only risk with summary cause is the cost's should you lose, which come on guy's we got the penalty charge scenario well tied up here. keep it basic do not try smart tactics or pitting your wits with a qualified solicitor. keep it simple and to the point and you'll win. The papers are exactly the same as a small claim, use the ready made statement of claim and your laughing...........the only thing that will compromise this situation any further than it has already is WHEN the numpties at the OFT print out their guff on the charges. However we still go for credit card charges don't we!!! so leave it up to the individual for what route they want to take.....

[suzieblooz]

Am getting confused and have a thread already on Hbos site - not Scotland site. As I'm claiming £2771 so far(still waiting more statements) Have decided to play safe and go FOS route. However when do I contact them? Do I do a Prelim letter to the bank first, then a LBA and then contact them if I don't get a satisfactory response or do I just contact them once I know the full amount without doing an LBA? Sorry for jumping on here but it is confusing.