Fendy v NatWest - 16K - **FINALLY WON**

[PPMAN159]

I had a call from Nasty West yesterday but I was not at home and when asked they would not leave a message or number for me to phone back.

 

Is this a new tactic that they are employing

[Parkvale]

You didn't use Fendy's cash card as well yesterday. ?

[PPMAN159]

Cant be me-never been to Bradford!

[fendyweather]

Lol Lol, ur all so naughty............ Well Im in credit so it cant be a bollocking for using my card................ Lol. Fendy xxxxxxxxxxxx Im just really curious thought what it is............ but wont let that curiosity get the better of me.................. not ringing. Just emailed though. Fendy xxxxxxxxxx

[Parkvale]

Maybe they want to hire you for promotions. Like Howard for the Halifax.

Or maybe they want you to man their call centre. They could save a fortune on staff. You could do it single handed. You are destined for fame. Dame Fendy.

[PPMAN159]

When you win they could make it into a film called 'Fendy's Boats Come In'

[Parkvale]

"Gone with the wind." When she picks up her cheque.

[frizzielizzie]

 

Hi Guys!

 

Well i have just sat and read through all the message ( Well most of em!)

and flamin heck yous lot can talk!

So u still have not got ur money back yet Fendy? Anyone else still waitin?

I have asked for my charges back, not as much as yours Fendy but still £2001. They have until Monday to respond.

 

I noticed on some messages people had rang and emailed.

Should i ring on Tuesday if i aint heard from the or should i just go straight to court proceedings? Also where have you been emailing and have you just been ringing your local branch?

 

Sorry for all the questions but yous all seem to know soooooo much about it .

 

Good luck to everyone cos i love the fact that the greedy banks are finally gettin screwed off us minnions!!

xx

[fendyweather]

Not so much minnions....................... we are a force to be reckoned with these days, but it makes no difference, they still keep us waiting. Lol. You can e mail customer relations which is where Mr. Higleys staff are, who sort these claims out:

 

C[email protected]

 

but to be honest, I have several times and its made no difference to anything at all. I would just file court claim as soon as you can, so long as youve waited the time frame it advises on here............ I just wouldnt bother even dealing with them. If they dont have the courtesy or time to get back to you after two letters and a month, then believe me, the only way they will believe you are serious is by starting court claim. Just my take on it, not necessarily right, everybody seems to have their own thoughts on dealing with them, but so far, Ive only had responses, when they know Im serious............. i.e. court. But even then, its a long long process....................... you have to be prepared for a long wait........ no easy answer to this and its certainly not a quick fix....... All the best.

 

Fendy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[PPMAN159]

If ever there was a department more

[frizzielizzie]

Thanks for the advice Fendy.

 

[PPMAN159]

...inappropriately named it must be the Nat West Customer Realations Department

[enaid]

Just done my MCOL for Monument easy peasy second time around, I just love it, I may get meself one of them wigs soon:D I second what Fendy said just go for the juggular, it's the only thing these institutions understand.

[fendyweather]

Exactly Enaid. Exactly....... thats ma girl............ Fendy x

[Parkvale]

Ahhhhh all excited purple wiggy turtle.

[fendyweather]

HELP HELP HELP.

 

 

Oooooh right new development. Just got home. I only work till 3.30 and postie was just pulling up in van with 2 parcels (yeah I been buying on e bay again, lol), and he also handed me a recorded delivery letter, to sign for, you guessed it. From court..............

 

Its the Cobbetts defence from court. But what is puzzling me is this.

 

The letter states, and I quote.....

 

"To all parties"

 

"A defence to this claim has been filed.

 

The claim has been transferred to the court covering the area where the claimant lives or carries on business.OK STRAIGHT FORWARD I KNOW. BUT THEN THIS..........

 

Please read the accompanying documents carefully.

 

Attached document headed up

 

NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT

 

my details, case number, banks details etc. etc. etc.

 

"Without hearing, IT IS ORDERED THAT:

 

1). The filing of an allocation questionnaire be dispensed with IN THIS CASE, unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.**

 

Note. Any party affected by this order may under Rule 3.3(5) apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed.... Such a party must apply under Rule 23.3 within 14 days of service of this order.

 

**Please note that an allocation fee may be payable in this instance. Please contact the court of transfer for further details.

 

Date order drawn: 10th April 2007

 

GD.

 

*******************************************************

 

Now Im not thick honest, but what does that mean ? dispensing with the filing of AQ. Why ? I thought it was standard that I would get an AQ to fill in. What do I do now ?? Any ideas, mods, anybody......?? Not sure what next step is now, as I wasnt expecting that. And what the heck does it mean ???????

[enaid]

They are doing it all the time now. there are a few threads relating to this and I think bankfodder has done a piece on it if Im not mistaken

[enaid]

See you found it then, told you it was ok. Should make things a little quicker hopefully

[fendyweather]

Hi Enaid, thanks. But the lovely and delectable Mr. Michael Browne has just replied to my query. I know what to do from hereon.

 

But thanks................... Fendy xx

 

Heres where he pointed me to:

 

Totally new - as of yesterday - peeps are getting this from the court:

 

We have received the Notice of Transfer of Proceedings and with this is another sheet of paper saying that

 

1. The filing of an allocation qustionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.

 

We can assume that the courts are so innundated with cases (and allocation questionaires) that they have decided to take this step.

It would appear that it means the judge MAY OR MAY NOT require an AQ to be filed. It suggests to me that the judges are fed up with the banks using the system to stall when they are perfectly aware that at the end of this great stall - the banks settle and the court system is being played to the bank's advantage. I think we will see the local judge doing one of two things - either requesting an AQ which I'm sure you will be made aware of by post OR: and think this is more likely- the judge will set a court date much earlier.

 

OK, don't panic at that info - this is, in my view, good news - as it will shorten the whole process. Let's see where this goes - it's too new to call. Most of you are aware - we are just people like you - watching and seeing what happens but the best guess is it means the banks will be forced into action much faster.

 

My one suggestion, so far is to send DG a letter - this lets them know that you know what's going on and it is you making an attempt to get them to move it along and will be seen by a judge in a very favourable light.

 

Here is a letter you could send when you receive that notice from the court:

 

(ADDRESS THIS LETTER TO THE SOLICITORS DEALING WITH YOUR BANK/INSTITUTIONS LEGAL CLAIMS - THIS IS HSBC INFO)

DG Solicitors

12 Calthorpe Road

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 1QZ

 

Re: XXXXX - v - HSBC

account no,

claim no and filing date(mcol).

 

It has come to my attention that as of xx/xx/07, ( date of the letter from the court) that an Allocation Questionaire may not be required in this case.

 

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £xxxx. (rounded down to nearest pound-keep this as your full amount including charges, interest and court filing fee). I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.

 

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.

 

For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

There will inevitably be a lot of discussion about this (the new approach by the court) and I think it would be a good idea to keep the discussion in one place and also have a place to refer to when people don't get the response at the end of 28 days that we have so confidently predicted.

 

It may come to pass that local judges will ask for the allocation questionaire and if they require one - it will undoubtedly be sent from the local court to the parties involved ( and the traditional 14 days or so to a filing deadline ). So until you hear otherwise, if the message received is that the AQ may be dispensed with in this case - take it that it has been until you hear otherwise.

 

Let the party begin.................... .

 

 

TO OTHER FORUM USERS: WELCOME, THIS IS HERE SOLELY BECAUSE I HELP WITH THIS FORUM - I DON'T SEE WHY ANY OF IT WOULDN'T APPLY TO ANY OTHER BANK/INSTITUTION - FEEL FREE TO ADD TO OUR THREAD AND USE ANY INFO -

 

And here is one of the moderator's take on this:

Is your court dispensing with the Allocation Questionnaire?

Bookworm

 

Another thing: I wrote this thread: When you have filed your AQ................ for peeps when they had filed their AQ's.

If you haven't yet had to do an AQ - some of the info is still very pertinent to what to do next. Take a look and see how you can vary it and use the info to help you in dealing with the court and DG. Obviously not all of it is relevant - but some of it is and may help.

 

 

HERE'S ANOTHER BIG ADDITION TO THIS THREAD AS OF FRIDAY 6 APRIL

 

It has been suggested by Bookworm in this thread:

Is your court dispensing with the Allocation Questionnaire?

that if you find yourself in this position - you send the Draft Direction to the court you've now been transferred to - the same as if you were filing an AQ using the new strategy:

New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

So, this would mean a cover note like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Your address]

The Court Manager

****** County Court

Court Address

Court P/code

 

 

[date]

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim Number: *******

 

 

 

It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are bring against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date the banks have failed to defend a case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which they deal with these matters satisfactorily.

 

 

 

In light of this the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the enclosed draft order.

 

 

 

The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

 

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

 

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

 

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

 

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

[name]

 

 

 

enc: Draft Order

 

 

 

 

THEN ON A SEPARATE PIECE OF PAPER - THIS:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

 

AND ONE FURTHER BIT OF INFO - I KNOW IT'S DRAGGING THIS POST OUT BUT I THINK IT BEST TO HAVE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ALL IN ONE PLACE SO:

 

If the judge were to grant the draft order it would mean that when the court asks for the info - this is it, in triplicate (one set for you, one for the court and one for dg) - so DON'T do this until it is ordered by the court and it is about 5 days from being required as it is a heck of a lot of copying - probably over 200 pages times 3.

but this is the info that would be required should the draft direction be made an order:

 

If the judge agrees with the draft order and makes it a direction, it will come back to you and you will have at least 14 days (the date will be on the paperwork) to send in four things:

 

a) your schedule of charges. (ie a copy of your spreadsheet)

b) your statements showing the charges. Alternatively, the list of charges which the bank provided under your S.A.R (subject Access Request) (only send the statements with charges on them.)

c) A Statement of Evidence: (post 55 in the new strategy): New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

d) All the statutes and decided cases on which your claim relies. ie, UTCCR's, UCTA's, SOGA, case law, etc. For this, I'd just submit the whole of the Basic Court Bundle.

 

This whole thing runs to around 200 pages and should be done in triplicate: one copy for you, one for the court and one for dg – that’s 600 pages of copying – LEAVE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW FOR SURE YOU NEED IT. If an offer comes in from DG and is accepted you wouldn’t need it. Really leave it until you have to do it to meet the deadline set by the court!

 

COPIED AND PASTED FROM ANOTHER POST........ Just in case anybody needs it. Fendy xxx

[enaid]

Bloody hell sore finger for me then:D

[fendyweather]

Lol Lol Lol Enaid. Youre soooooooooooo funny.

 

I just wanted to say a very very sincere thank you to Michael Browne. Hes such a iccle star. So helpful, and asks for nothing in return. Michael, you are a darling, and your help is soooooooooooooo muchly moo appreciated. I cant thank you enough. Fendy xxxx

 

Although I do read and read and read again loads on this site, if it wasnt in the Nasty West forum, I dont think I would have ever found it. Thank you again soooooooooo much. I COULD KISS YOU.

[Parkvale]

Fendy very interesting. Whether the no AQ will shorten the journey only time will tell

Good development though. Well done Mr Browne, a superstar everyone would agree.

[fendyweather]

OK, just drafted these three letters:

 

First one:

 

Ms. Lynsey Burgoyne

Cobbetts Solicitors LLP

Ship Canal House

King Street

Manchester

M2 4WB

 

12th April 2007

 

 

Re: XXXXXXXXX - v – NATWEST BANK

ACCOUNT NO: XXXXXXXXXX

SORT CODE: XXXXXXXXXXXX

CLAIM NO: XXXXXXXX FILED ON 5TH MARCH 2007

********************************************************************

It has come to my attention that as of 10TH April /07, that an Allocation Questionaire may not be required in this case. The court has stated that this can be dispensed with.

 

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, and save taking up valueable court time and resources, I am willing to accept the sum of £XXXXXXX which is made up of my charges, plus interest at 8% right up to todays date above, and my court filing fee already paid. This figure represents a lesser amount than the true costs but I have deducted a small amount off the true figure, for the purposes of rounding down and being seen to try and negotiate this matter to a satisfactory conclusion prior to court. I will of course be claiming further interest at 8% for every day that this goes on without conclusion i.e. in dispute with yourselves, and also any AQ fee that may be required by the court at a later date, together with costs for myself, for all the work in preparing my information ready for court at a future date. This is the final time I will offer to accept less than is actually due. At no time in future will I accept this lesser figure of £xxxxxxxxx I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions whatsoever, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality, either now or in the future.

 

I hope to hear from you soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention if at all possible. But if you do not wish to negotiate and offer me this lesser figure, then I will be proceeding to trial date with this matter, as you will have left me no alternative whatsoever.

 

For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges, yet again, which also now incorporates a more up to date figure for the interest purposes, at 8%, bearing in mind that has been accumulating on a daily basis since inception of this claim on 5th March 07. I look forward to hearing from you in due course if you wish to negotiate this prior to court date. If not, then I shall see you in court.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

CLAIMANT: C.C. COURT JUDGE, xxxxxxxxx

 

 

OK THAT ONE DONE.

[fendyweather]

NEXT ONE DONE TO JUDGE AT XXXX COURT, LOCAL ONE.

 

The Court Manager

XXXXX County Court

West Yorkshire

 

12th April 2007

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Mrs XXXXXXXX v- Natwest Bank Plc

Claim Number: XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are currently bringing against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date, the banks, as yet, have failed to defend any case in the courts, and that they often use the court process as a way of extending and delaying the period of time, within which they deal with these matters satisfactorily. Basically an abuse of the court process to drag the matter out.

In light of this, the Claimant, myself, respectfully asks, that special directions may be made as per the enclosed draft order. I totally understand and appreciate, that this is directly at the discretion of the judge and will abide by anything he or she may decide in this matter.

The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further, the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

The crux upon which this claim rests, is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breaches from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate and prove the cost of each and every charge as proportionate to its actual true loss incurred, then it has directly charged to the claimant, contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs incurred is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

Page 2 continued……………………………

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial in court, as is indicated by its defence received to date, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely being ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Lincoln, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of actual fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour in total.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Mrs XXXXXXX

Tel. XXXXXXXX

Mobile: XXXXXXXXXX

E.Mail: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

enc: Draft Order

Draft Order for Directions

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that particular charge being made;

• b) Copies of any bank statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter, file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

THERE, NUMBER TWO DONE TO COURT.

[fendyweather]

AND FINALLY NUMBER THREE TO THE COURT TO ENSURE THEY ARE COPIED IN ON THE LETTER IVE SENT TO COBBETTS OFFERING TO ACCEPT A TEENSY WEENSY BIT LESS AS PER DIRECTION ON HERE.

 

Only 5quid less. Lol.

 

 

XXXXXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

WEST YORKSHIRE.

 

12th April 2007

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

RE: XXXXXXXXXXXv- Natwest Bank Plc

Claim Number: XXXXXXXX - Commenced 5th March 2007

 

Please find enclosed herewith, copy of a letter I sent to Cobbetts Solicitors, acting as defence for Natwest Bank. I sent this letter, today 12th April.

Please can you attach a copy of this to my file for the Judge to see at the time this comes to trial please.

Thanking you in advance.

Yours Sincerely,

Mrs XXXXXXXXXX

HOPEFULLY THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO SHOW JUDGE IM A REASONABLE PERSON WILLING TO NEGOTIATE, THEY BEING IN FAVOUR OF NEGOTIATION TO SETTLE THESE MATTERS AND ALL.

PHEW, THAT TOOK SOME TIME........... FENDY XXXXXXXXX