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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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:rolleyes: Just decided to chase up Black horse for various charges on a nearly repaid secured loan. I know I should have "no problem" claiming activity/direct debit charges but I'm going for the jugular. I'm trying to claim back late payment interest charges that I have to pay on top of the interest that was already added to the loan and I'm also asking for partial return of legal charges which I think were way over the top. I sent my prelim. action letter (I have all my information) yesterday. Here's fingers crossed.
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Good luck.

Start your own thread and read some other threads too.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not sure if I am on the right wave length (or thread for that matter), not used to this. Age 56 but still learning. Held back by the civil service for thirty years, fortunately, now retired. Anyway, Black horse has not replied to my preliminary letter, no surprise there then. Letter before Action to be sent today by recorded delivery. As my account is held at Black Horse Cardiff, I've sent my correspondence there. Is this right or does Black Horse have an elite section for claims, anyone know? Has anyone had success with a secured loan taken out with Black Horse?

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As I had no response to my prelim. letter from Black Horse Cardiff, I've sent my Recorded Delivery LBA to the Compliance and Admin dept at LloydsTSB Asset Finance Division Barnet; hope this ok. I'm also thinking of faxing it as well. Is this a good idea?

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Sent my LBA to Black Horse Asset and Finance Office recorded delivery on Thursday, 1.2 It was received on Friday,2.2.Envelope on my door mat today, 3.2 from BH Acknowledging receipt of LBA but informing me that it's been sent to Cardiff " so that the relevant department within the Cardiff Office can ignore it, oops!, can make a response". Probably same reply as my prelim. letter. I didn't get one. Pat on the back to Royal Mail. Second class frank on BH envelope, delivered next day.

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Hey Joe

Where you goin with that LBA in your hand?

Good to read from another golden oldie; I'm 1/2 way through claiming from Halifax for my son, we have been stalled by P.O., so far the LBA sent 27/01/07 recorded del. hasnt arrived.

We are also going to have a go at Black Horse over charges made on his loan for a car which he defaulted on so I'm reading with interest.

Good luck, sorry I cant give you any advice, just encouragement.

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Cheers, hazzersdad. Encouragement is greatfully received, it's just as welcome as advice in my book. I don't know why Barnet Black Horse sent the LBA to Cardiff as they are well equipped to deal with it themselves being the asset and finance div. I've bollocked them though as I had proof of delivery at Barnet bit now I don't for Cardiff. I've requested immediate contact from Cardiff; we can but hope!

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Following my LBA to Barnet/Cardiff last Friday, I have received a letter today (not too bad going I suppose) acknowledging receipt and stating we are currently assessing your claim for a refund of fees paid (no mention of late payment interest) and also the position regarding to fees accrued and unpaid. There are no F***ing fees unpaid except the £25 they hope to collect on completion of the loan, no chance. I wouldn't mind but the loan should have been finished in October 2004 but I'll be paying until June this year because of the interest that was added on. There were a few payments missed because of our business failure and at one time they were going to take us to court for repossession but that never happened. We did of course get lumbered with Solicitors fees (I wonder if I should have asked for them back) which were added to the loan and which also accrued interset.Anyway, I have bashed of a fax asking what fees accrued and unpaid, apart from the £25 I know about.Hope you get your settlement today.Ian (real name) but credit companies have been taking the P so long I thought Joe Soap was more appropriate!

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Just had some boiler from Black Horse on the 'phone to tell me that they will be writing to me asap as they've got that many claims to look at. I politely reminded her that she had until Friday as the fourteen days were up. A pause while she put me on hold, she obviously didn't realise the deadline. She came back and informed me that she would have a word with her boss when he came out of a meeting and get back to me within the hour.

 

A few minutes later while writing this, true to her word, back she came. She had had a word with the gaffa and agreed to pay up and the refund would be offset by the balance of the loan. I'm happy with that as I've still ended up with 280 quid plus the fact that I no longer have to pay out 75 quid a month. This is my first experience but may not be my last.

 

Trouble is, I defaulted on credit cards and the debts were sold on. Instead of chasing up charges on these particular cards, perhaps I should ensure that the DCA's have the original agreements, if not, maybe I have no credit card debts after all.

 

Extra money will come in handy as No1 son gets married at Easter, wor lass will no doubt, want a new frock. The cheque is supposed to be raised today, but I know from otherexperiences that they may stall. They will be fools if they do!

 

Cheers

 

Ian (not so much of a joe soap after all)

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Thanks for that hazersdad

 

I have to say that Black Horse were pretty good. I basically said that I know you don't want to go to court and I don't particularly want to waste my time (of which I've got plenty of, early retired) but I will if necessary. One call to her gaffer and that was it.

 

They'll probably ignore the prelim. letter but once they've got the LBA they know there is no escape.

 

Hope you are successful in your quests, I would be interested in the outcomes.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

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Thanks for that Ian

We are still paying off my sons loan, don't no wether to start the claim before its finished, any ideas?

Also the charges have been broken down as follows on BH statement of account:-

Late payment Interest at the contract rate £200

Unpaid returned remittances from your bankers £75

Collection activity charge £670

 

They havent been itemised as I thought they would have been, does this look normal and can they be claimed for?

 

When we go ahead I'll start a new thread on CAG - Other Institutions as I havent found a dedicated forum for BH

 

Cheers and good luck with your lasses new frock

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Due to our business failure we missed a few payments. The loan was supposed to finish over two years ago but because of missed payments and the effing high level of interest rates, it was due to finish this June; so in answer to your first question, start now. What we got (when the cheque arrives) back covers the outstanding amount of the loan plus 280 quid left over and of course, no more monthly payments to BH.

 

We claimed for collection activity fees and the late payment interest and anything else that was on the statement. If you haven't got an itemised statement, ask for one. Ring Cardiff and ask for an up to date full statement and tell them you are updating your personal records. If they won't give you one, you'll have to request one under the Data Protection rules. I already had a statement. When you get the statement back, use the interest calculation template from the CAG library, you need the dates of the charges etc for completion. Just go for it now. If you need any help you know where I am.

 

Have a look at pt2537Vblack horse. Paul has been sucessful as well.

 

Best of luck,

 

Ian

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Hello Ian

Thanks for your reply. Has your cheque turned up yet?

I already have yourself and pt2537 bookmarked, they are both very helpful to me.

 

Hazzer himself is going to chase this one up, I'm out of the country soon for a month or two; also we are 3/4 way through with halifax, we filed at court on Monday 12/02 so the young un is happy with the procedure - in fact he's now helping his mate's with their battle.

He's been off work with a snapped crucial ligament since March 2006 so has time on his hands; no operation date yet either!

We'll let you know the thread title so you can look out for us if you would please.

 

Good luck

Hazzers dad

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Hi hazzersoldman

 

No cheque yet but it was only raised on Monday, not sure how long BH need to raise and despatch. I know that pt was still waiting for his on Monday and his had been raised at the end of Jan. Enjoy your time out of the country, unless you are working of course. Help here if hazzer needs it.

 

Ian

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Hello again Ian

I've just read andrewjb thread and my son is in the same situation i.e. the charges are shown on his statement but havent been deducted so will have to hang fire and maybe query them before they get deducted.

Unfortunately it is work that takes me away - no Newcy Browns, I'm off to Iran.

 

Cheers

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