NRAM repo help

[jotho]

We are in exactly this position with NRAM.

 

We unsuccessfully tried to fend off a possession order last week using s.2 against the fact the mortgage offer was not signed at all, by anyone.

 

In our case, unusally, we had lost our original offer and asked NRAM to send us a copy. The copy they sent was different from the original. We claimed, as it was not signed, how could they prove it was the same document we had agreed to when we signed the deed? They had just produced (and sworn to) a document in court which we knew was fraudulent.

 

The judge seemed interested in this and allowed the "money claim" part to go to trial but allowed the possession order. He refused permission to appeal on the grounds of s.2 and ordered us to amend our defence to the money claim by omitting any reference to the s.2 argument.

 

He stated in the judgement that s2 does not apply to legal mortgages, only equitable.

 

While this argument has been successful to date with lenders because legal mortgages are designed to create an instant disposition with incorporated conditions and not a disposition in the future, it does not take into account the registration gap argument. ( Helden v Strathmore may yet prove to be per incurium).

 

Our concern at the moment however is to deal with what the judge has done here. He appears to have allowed the idea that the offer is not the genuine one a reasonable chance of success. (In actual fact he said it had every liklihood of succeeding but NRAM's barrister made him retract that as being potentially prejudicial).

 

Yet he has allowed the repossession order, brought on the basis of alleged arrears as defined by the very document he is allowing us to challenge at trial.

 

Our situation seems to have focussed the questions in this thread. How can he determine a possession for arrears and yet allow a challenge to those arrears to go ahead.

 

How can he say, as he did, well you obviously owe something so I'll allow the possession order and you can sort out how much later on at trial?

 

We are going to seek leave to appeal but would welcome any help on how to frame this. Time is tight.

Edited December 9, 2013 by honeybee13
Spacing.

[TimetogoRAM]

This is very interesting. The offer document that you talk about, which you state may be fraudulent. Are you saying that you lost the original offer document and then they have produced a copy of a document which is now signed by you? And your lender? Or both?

 

Like you say, how can the judge allow a possession order to go ahead on the basis of terms and conditions of the very document you are disputing?

 

When did you take the mortgage out?

How many months arrears?

When did Nram begin these legal repossession proceedings?

Have you considered challenging the actual mortgage deed?

[jotho]

Hi Timetogoram.

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to you.

Our lender (NR) has secured a possession order with a signed (by us, not them) deed and nothing else.

Neither the mortgage offer, nor the conditions nor any other document in existence has been signed either by us or them.

We took the mortgage out in 2007.

We were sent an offer of loan and having agreed the terms within were told just to sign the deed.

At the first possession hearing they turned up with the deed and 2 sets of conditions which we had never seen before but not the offer with the terms in it.

The DJ set a PTR to allowed us time to file a proper response, which we did, explaining how they had not produced any document signed by us which stated the terms of the mortgage.

Seeing as how they were claiming possession based on alleged arrears we thought it would be necessary for them to at least produce a document showing what the arrears actually were.

At the PTR they then turned up with an offer of loan (unsigned by anyone) containing terms different from those in the original (the missing, true offer).

We protested and the DJ (a different one) believed us enough to allow that part to go to trial. But he then gave them the possession order based on the document he had just allowed to be challenged at a future trial.

We have since applied to void the order because it was prejudicial, being based on the outcome of a future trial. That was refused.

We appealed to the CJ using s.2, the registration gap, Helden (working for us in this case) and he has dismissed our appeal as wholly without merit. Again he said "section 2 does not apply to legal mortgages".

We now have one final shot at it at an oral hearing in 2 weeks and then all doors are closed. We are putting it all in an application to the Property Chamber in the hopes they can do something but these lower court judges are something else.

They will not listen to s2 however logically you apply it (and I totally agree with you that logically s2 has to apply to the t's and c's at the very least). I can logically make it apply to the deed too using the registration gap but fat chance with that in court.

The terms in this bogus offer they have sworn into evidence don't even match the payments we were making for over 6 years! They still got the possession order and the appeal was thrown out.

Such incredible, nonsensical and unintelligent abuse of judicial power has left us reeling. There is nothing left we can do.

Except lend our experience to help anyone else in the same situation, which we are happy to do if it can be of any use.

Jo

[ims21]

never mind

 

OK

 

Thread closed